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08-22-2011, 11:49 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by richard balonglong Quote
Well said friend! You saved me a lot of time explaining... =)
No problem, mate!

08-23-2011, 04:26 AM   #17
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And this is almost the only case where a faster sync speed would be useful... No, scrape that, this is the only case: fast action shoots where the ambient must be balanced with the flash...

So, Pentax would have to completely overhaul its whole shutter design, just to satisfy a tiny handful of shooters... I guess their money will be better spent in the AF dept., or some lens R&D, or even some serious MILC R&D (Q notwithstanding here)...
08-23-2011, 05:58 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
So, Pentax would have to completely overhaul its whole shutter design, just to satisfy a tiny handful of shooters
That handful is a lot. There are hundreds and thousands and more who uses strobes and wanted to eliminate motion blur and/or to compensate better their lighting (i.e. fashion and portrait photographers, sport photographers, strobists, photojournalists, etc...) And that "only case" is a lot of thing for photography.
Although, I agree with you with the improvement of AF, lens, etc... But improving the flash sync speed would also be a good improvement for Pentax cameras. Improving the sync speed won't hurt the company, but adds points to them.
08-23-2011, 09:44 AM   #19
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I believe the sensor technology will soon allow to build a shutterless dslr - or at least one that only need shutter for speeds above 1/1000. That will solve the problem. Maybe NX200 will already feature that, I saw some Samsung patent application that looked like shutterless APS-C imager.

08-23-2011, 09:52 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by elho_cid Quote
I believe the sensor technology will soon allow to build a shutterless dslr
Yeah, I hope that Ricoh would put that tech on Pentax... =)
08-23-2011, 01:17 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by richard balonglong Quote
That handful is a lot. There are hundreds and thousands and more who uses strobes and wanted to eliminate motion blur and/or to compensate better their lighting (i.e. fashion and portrait photographers, sport photographers, strobists, photojournalists, etc...) And that "only case" is a lot of thing for photography.
As I said, eliminating motion blur while trying to balance ambient and flash is nearly the only reason you would really need a faster sync speed, as all the other reasons could be answered by another mean.

In your other examples, a faster sync speed to balance ambient is needed only if your aperture is fixed and you're already at base ISO, and in this case, using a small ND filter or (even better) a polarizer will bring you beyond the 1/180 to 1/250 speed bump...
Okay, using a filter pumps slightly more juice from your flash batteries, and you have IQ problems if you're using low-quality filters, but I'd frankly prefer for Pentax to let the shutter alone.

Now I could see a use for an electronic shutter option allowing sync speed up to 1/8000... Say, in the Flash menu, having a new option : normal, HSS, Wireless, and Electronic Shutter.
It should be disabled by default, and be enabled via a Custom option (quite like the "Aperture ring Permitted" option).

I had a bridge some 6 years ago with which I started strobing, and it could sync right up to 1/4000... Quite fun to use!
08-23-2011, 04:19 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
difference in motion blur from 1/180th to 1/250th is more than you would think
ok....you understand flash/ambient mixing...if the OP had explained it that way, it would have made more sense than saying he wanted Pentax to do what the D70 does

For that BMX situation, I'd use an ND filter and an Einstein/VML combo. Yes, more watt seconds.

That 1/180 vs. 1/250 has me curious though...any references to how what that looks like for that BMX example? No using HSS and cheating :-)
08-23-2011, 09:32 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
In your other examples, a faster sync speed to balance ambient is needed only if your aperture is fixed and you're already at base ISO, and in this case, using a small ND filter or (even better) a polarizer will bring you beyond the 1/180 to 1/250 speed bump...
Yeah, I know. I've been using ND and polarizer filters to stop down exposure (and that's my last resort), but when shooting fast moving subjects a 1/180sec isn't enough, there's still a motion blur in it. So a flash sync speed up to 1/500sec would be great. I don't have problems shooting with 1/180 sec sync when I'm shooting stills or static subjects, but for fast moving subjects that's another thing. =)

08-23-2011, 09:41 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
ok....you understand flash/ambient mixing...if the OP had explained it that way, it would have made more sense than saying he wanted Pentax to do what the D70 does
Hmmm... I stated what are the benefits of having a faster flash sync speed in my first statement, not just that I wanted what the D70 has. Try to strobe fast moving subjects with only 1/180sec sync speed, and you'll notice the difference. This has always been my problem when I'm shooting and strobing fast moving subjects.
08-24-2011, 01:19 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
Now I could see a use for an electronic shutter option allowing sync speed up to 1/8000... Say, in the Flash menu, having a new option : normal, HSS, Wireless, and Electronic Shutter.
It should be disabled by default, and be enabled via a Custom option (quite like the "Aperture ring Permitted" option).
Now I don't know much about camera programming, but I totally agree and don't see why that would be hard to implement. Sutter stays open, sensor digitally shuts off/on/off, to simulate the exposure length. No curtains to sync with, no mess, sync as high as you want. That is already was the sensor is essentially doing in video mode, at 30fps.
08-24-2011, 01:23 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
ok....you understand flash/ambient mixing...if the OP had explained it that way, it would have made more sense than saying he wanted Pentax to do what the D70 does

For that BMX situation, I'd use an ND filter and an Einstein/VML combo. Yes, more watt seconds.

That 1/180 vs. 1/250 has me curious though...any references to how what that looks like for that BMX example? No using HSS and cheating :-)
While I've never done side by side comparisons, I have seen many examples of exactly that type of shot with neglible motion blur from other brand shooters. And while there's may be some secret technique I don't know about, I think those 70 hundredths of a second are playing a big part.

The other problem with ND filters, is that if you shooting and mixing with ambient sunset light, you EV level are already low. Putting ND in front of your lens just makes it that much harder for the camera to auto focus...
08-24-2011, 03:37 AM   #27
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I think the answer is going to be with sensor technology. I would think once they have good in-sensor shutter, they could go to 1/500 second without too much problem. The Nikon D40 did that quite a long time ago.
08-24-2011, 07:37 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
The other problem with ND filters, is that if you shooting and mixing with ambient sunset light, you EV level are already low. Putting ND in front of your lens just makes it that much harder for the camera to auto focus...
Always true w/ ND filters and focusing.

I'm sorry, I still don't think that 70th of a second (1/3 stop? really?) is going to make that much of a difference, so I"m going to be from Missouri for that and ask you or the OP to show me the money
If the OP has friends w/ a Canikon system (who doesn't nowadays?), just get them into the same shooting setup. Put their flash in the same position. Lock their sync speed at 1/250 (no HSS cheats), and do the same Pentax shot at 1/180.

A much better solution would be to get a Canon G12 or Nikon P7000 P&S cam and sync that to your strobes at 1/2000 w/ their electronic shutters (you freeze tennis balls at 1/2000 so that should be plenty). Really need interchangeable lenses? A Sony NEX probably works too. Or Ricoh's GXR. Kill off ambient and use your strobe pulse to freeze motion...


QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The Nikon D40 did that quite a long time ago.
The D40 is no longer made AFAIK...and Nikon's newer cams don't do that technique any more too...
08-24-2011, 03:10 PM   #29
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when you use long telephotos, is really hard to get 1/180s without blur.
I'm actually making a 'grid optical snoot' to use it with my 400mm and at that long, i would need a monopod...in other words a 100 bucks more in equipment

i guess SR and faster sync speed its hard to implement in a camera and i personally prefer faster AF than sync speed for BIF
08-24-2011, 11:27 PM   #30
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Hmmm... Improvement of AF is a +++. The improvement of flash sync speed is a +++ too. I'm not in a hurry for Pentax/Ricoh to improve the sync speed, but hoping they could improve that one day. =)
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