[Edgar_in_Indy]

I'm sure that many of you are aware of Sony's new 24-MP APS-C cameras that were just released. Although there are no full reviews available yet, dpreview has posted a gallery of full-size samples and Luminous Landscape is making some good noises about the sensor. It looks like this sensor will be pushing the aging FF cameras to up their games.

If you haven't checked out the sample pics, you should do so. There is a series of the same image shot at various ISO's, and the ISO 3200 shot still looks very respectable at 100% magnification.

So it got me thinking, when will I be able to get a 24MP Pentax? I've been tempted by the K-5 this last year, but I just don't feel like it's a big enough jump from my K-x. But if Pentax were to release the successor to the K-5 with this new 24MP sensor, I don't think I would have any choice but to start saving my pennies.

Sure, maybe a few of those megapixels would be wasted at higher ISO levels, but I also do a lot of shooting at or near base ISO, and it would sure be nice to go from a 12MP camera in my studio to a 24MP camera. I've NEVER been against more MP, as long as image quality was retained.

Is anybody else having similar thoughts?

[Eagle_Friends]

Pentax may announce something at photokina in mid sept, and if they do, it should be out around november-ish. otherwise, it will most likely be around march/april, with the ricoh buyout and all. if you want to get a K5, you should probably just get a K5, iso shots from the A77 was not impressive at all. at 1600, it looks worst than a canon 60d... @__@ i think the reason they had to go down to iso 50 is because the translucent mirror loses about 1 stop of light. still a fine camera mine you, but if you want a camera now, you shouldn't wait. just my thoughts.

[Edgar_in_Indy]

You're right, and like I said, some of the MP would probably be overkill at high ISO. Even with my K-x, I usually down-rez my high ISO shots. With 24MP to work with, even down-rezzing to 50% would still leave me with 12MP (the same as a full-size image from my K-x).

But having a 24MP clean, detailed, low ISO image is what has me excited. Plus, the Pentax wouldn't have to deal with the light loss of the translucent mirror, so performance could only be better.

[Emacs]

I wouldn't call this "clean" image. At least, from what I have seen on imaging resource.

[maxfield_photo]

I'm under impressed by the Sony A77. I know we haven't seen RAW files from it yet, but to my eye, it doesn't seem to resolve any better than the K-5, or maybe it does, but then it gets eaten up by the heavy noise reduction. I think 16~18MP is about as far as APS-C can be pushed before hitting a point of diminishing returns and 24MP is 50% beyond that point. Now the Sony does have some other redeeming features like 12fps, the articulated screen and in-body SR, butI won't be buying a 24MP camera unless it has a larger sensor.

[Edgar_in_Indy]

I don't know, perhaps you have a more critical eye than I do, but I didn't see a noise problem on the low ISO images I peeped on dpreview. I thought they looked sharp and clean. Look at the picture of the coiled rope, and zoom in on the rope and the diamond plating. And if you look at the red motorcycle picture, you can see the fine pattern in the seat. And in the picture of the woman on the bicycle, see how sharp the detail of the stucco is on the building behind her.

I'll admitted that the high ISO images aren't anything to get too excited about, and have obviously had noise removed, but I expect that if they were downsized to 50%, they would probably be at least as clean as my K-x images, if not cleaner.

[causey]

I'll admitted that the high ISO images aren't anything to get too excited about, and have obviously had noise removed, but I expect that if they were downsized to 50%, they would probably be at least as clean as my K-x images, if not cleaner.

If anything, downsized noisy images will look even noisier. Downsizing pics doesn't clean pixels. (Easy experiment: use a point and shoot.)

[Adam]

Ricoh will be investing in the K-mount system and in the 645D system, so I wouldn't be surprised if we started to see stuff like this in the coming years.

[Edgar_in_Indy]

If anything, downsized noisy images will look even noisier. Downsizing pics doesn't clean pixels. (Easy experiment: use a point and shoot.)

That hasn't been my experience at all. I shoot RAW and use Photoshop to process my images. Downsizing a noisy image has always been a method I use to produce cleaner images.

[maxfield_photo]

The picture with the rope is pretty well lit and shot at ISO 200, you'd expect it to be clean. But check out the picture of the sun setting between the two mountains over the lake. Look at the trees on the mountains themselves. My K20d has less noise than that at 800.

[KungPOW]

That hasn't been my experience at all. I shoot RAW and use Photoshop to process my images. Downsizing and image has always been a method I use to produce cleaner images.

+1

Works for me too.

[pinholecam]

The Sony SLTs never had the same image quality and high ISO performance compared the the Pentax K5, Kr, Kx. (mainly based on ImagingResource)
They have always looked less detailed (either due to heavier NR or light loss via the SLT or whatever, I don't know)

At a cursory glance, the A77 photos seem to be just larger (24mp) than the A55, with no real improvement to noise of detail retention.
If we can 'extrapolate' the performance between A55 and K5, then the new Pentax K? will be better than the A77 in rather similar ways like the former two.
That only means a larger MP version of performance than the K5 had...... not too big a deal....

In a way I am evilly glad that the A77 isn't showing any real improvement to the K5 and by extrapolation the new K?.
It just means that I don't need to spend money getting the new K?
Unless of course, the new camera will have much better AF, etc to entice me.


The A77 shots on ImagingResource do look suspicious though.
The ISO50 shot does not even seem to be focused on the targeting board.
How come even for the ISO50, 3200 shots, the text on the back of the book the lady is holding is not even clearly visible? (seems like focus was elsewhere of DOF was not the same as the K5 test)

[Edgar_in_Indy]

I haven't seen the test chart shots you're referring to, but I've noticed in the past how very tiny differences in focusing can cause problems for comparing different cameras using the same test shots. It's very easy for somebody to mistakenly assume that a particular camera or lens is "soft" because some black/white 2d objects are not as well defined, when in actuality the difference is caused by tiny differences in focus. I've noticed problems like this even on reputable sites. As far as end-user home-brewed comparisons...forget about it. This is why I mostly just use sample real-world images to judge cameras/lenses.

[Edgar_in_Indy]

I think that some people are not giving the A77 high ISO images enough credit. It should be kept in mind that the sample images we're seeing are from a pre-production A77, so they may not be representative of the final image quality. But even so, I'm still seeing more detail in the A77 ISO 800 and 1600 images from Imaging Resource than I am from the same images from the K-x and the K-5. (Likewise for base ISO images, of course.)

I've also taken the A77 images, and run NeatImage noise reduction on them in Photoshop CS5 and downsized them to the same resolution as the K-5 and K-x. This is far from ideal, since these are JPEGs that have already had a sloppy noise reduction applied, but my processed A77 images still featured more fine detail than the images from the K-x and K-5.

If you want to make the same comparisons, look at the still life images with the bottles:

On the "Samuel Smith" bottle, it is much easier to read the fine print around the seal at the bottom of the label. The horizontal black/white lines on the words "Pure Brewed" are also much cleaner on the A77.

You should also check out the round "Proportion Scale" on the right side of the image. Pay attention to the space between the black gradient bars around the edge, and notice how the spaces hold up much longer on the A77 before blending into a gray blur. Also compare how legible the two paragraphs of fine text are on the bottom portion of the scale.

I expect that once the firmware is finalized, and we are able to work with RAW files, the A77 high ISO will be better than the first impressions imply. So I'm not concerned about the ISO capabilities at this point. And again, this sensor in a Pentax won't be hindered by a translucent mirror. It still remains to be seen how the dynamic range compares to the mighty K5.

[Edvinas]

Pentax may announce something at photokina in mid sept, and if they do, it should be out around november-ish. otherwise, it will most likely be around march/april, with the ricoh buyout and all.

Are you aware that next Photokina will be in September next year?