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12-01-2007, 06:45 AM   #16
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I've been in the service industry for over 25 years and I'd agree there are unreasonable customers but frankly that's rare. Many times it's caused by poor customer service to begin with. 10 of those years were in the consumer electronics industry. As margins across the board dropped to an average of 10% the service had no choice but to follow.

I'm not defending the industry but there is a cause and effect across all brands. We as consumers demand rock bottom prices and top quality service. The 2 don't go hand in hand. I know the company I currently work for, works very hard to mitigate expenses and provide the best service they can. Sometimes they fail because the budgets don't allow the service we were used to years ago.

Another issue is the lack of properly trained staff. All too often the service people see these jobs as temp ones until something better comes along next week. The company has the correct procedures in place but the staff don't treat the customer like it was their customer owning their products. A service issue is a way to keep a customer for life, but many service personnel just couldn't care less. Gone are the days of the Maytag repair man who started at age 18 and retired in the blue suit...

Personally, I wouldn't be so quick to judge Albert as I have no idea what the reality of his experiences has been. I wouldn't doubt that he's had issues with both Canon and Pentax. I simply hope he gets the right person to correct the problems and set things straight.

I couldn't agree with SpecialK's comments more. You cause and unreasonable fuss and you'll get crap back. Sugar not salt.


Last edited by Peter Zack; 12-01-2007 at 07:01 AM.
12-01-2007, 09:52 AM   #17
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Don't like being one to judge but ditto'ed Donalds remarks after having tried to write a cordial response to Mr. Siegel. The more I wrote, the more unbelievable his claims seemed to be and the more I felt I was wasting my time with someone looking to do the same to all Pentax enthusiasts on the forum.

1. Purchased new equipment August 07' and sent in for service August 07', specifically a K10d and FA43mm lens.

2. Where was the dealers involvement at this point? What was actually wrong with the camera and lens that would warrant service rather than an exchange during the first month of ownership?

3. After unsuccessful attempts to get items repaired to owners satisfaction and said items incurring damage while at the service center, Mr. Siegel continues to purchase more Pentax gear over the course of three months.

4. Over the course of these three months, Mr. Siegel states purchases of $7000.00 towards Pentax gear, but that a third body order was cancelled and a couple lens purchases are being put on hold.....all the while loving their products and enjoying his gear.

5. "The store I bought it from said it was too late for them to help". Huh?? I can't imagine my dealer, local or online, telling me that at three months, let alone the first month of purchase, that they couldn't help. What are dealers for....?


Woof!
12-01-2007, 04:45 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
what I find amazing in all of this is no one reports what the initial problem was!

Why did the camera get sent out in the first place?????

I also agree that I find it difficult to believe the service was this poor, and that they physically damaged the camera.
The K10D had BF issues and had some parts replaced. The 43mm was softer than the 18-55mm kit lens at all settings. I could not exchange the 43mm as I bought the last one the store had and they said they would not be able to get more. I decided to send the K10D at the same time as I thought I would get it back better than new.

They did fix it and it works perfect, but they must work is some very dusty place because it came with more dust in the rear LCD than I have ever seen get in anything I have ever owned.

The physical damage happened the second time I sent them in. The lens was scratched and the K10D had part of the body damaged. Rather than open the camera and clean it out well, they stuck a putty knife or screw driver of some sort to pop out the LCD cover. When they did this, they damaged the body around the area of the LCD screen. It seems that they took the quick and easy way to attempt to clean the LCD. All the managed to do was move around the dust as well as damage the camera. Still works fine though.

I should not have had this happen. The camera was a month old when I sent it in. I think it unfair to be judged in a bad way when I all I wanted was for the gear I paid for to be the way it should have been in the first place.
12-01-2007, 04:56 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by MUD Quote
Don't like being one to judge but ditto'ed Donalds remarks after having tried to write a cordial response to Mr. Siegel. The more I wrote, the more unbelievable his claims seemed to be and the more I felt I was wasting my time with someone looking to do the same to all Pentax enthusiasts on the forum.
Your right, they do seem unbelievable even to me. That's what bothers me so much. I should not be going through this. I have never had anything like this happen. I'm sorry you feel you were wasting your time, but I assure you I am not looking to cause trouble. I simply was asking for help.


QuoteQuote:
1. Purchased new equipment August 07' and sent in for service August 07', specifically a K10d and FA43mm lens.

2. Where was the dealers involvement at this point? What was actually wrong with the camera and lens that would warrant service rather than an exchange during the first month of ownership?
Camera had AF/BF issues and had parts replaced. The lens was softer than the kit lens at all settings. Could not exchange because I bought the last 43mm they had. I had faith in Pentax service and decided it would be a good idea. I expected the lens to come back better than new.

QuoteQuote:
3. After unsuccessful attempts to get items repaired to owners satisfaction and said items incurring damage while at the service center, Mr. Siegel continues to purchase more Pentax gear over the course of three months.

4. Over the course of these three months, Mr. Siegel states purchases of $7000.00 towards Pentax gear, but that a third body order was cancelled and a couple lens purchases are being put on hold.....all the while loving their products and enjoying his gear.
I really like Pentax gear and figured my issue would be taken care of. There was no reason for me to stop yet as I was giving them a second change. There was no physical damage till the second time they were returned.


QuoteQuote:
5. "The store I bought it from said it was too late for them to help". Huh?? I can't imagine my dealer, local or online, telling me that at three months, let alone the first month of purchase, that they couldn't help. What are dealers for....?
I will need to rethink where I buy my gear from. When they told me 14 days I did not argue as I knew the limit when I bought it from them. Can you suggest a few good dealers that will help in the future?

12-01-2007, 05:12 PM   #20
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Personally, I would like to see a pic of the damaged goods...
It is also true that you catch a fly with honey....Bad mouthing and trashing a company on a forum is not going to help you any...If they were to see this post, the damage is done and your out of luck....

$7000.00 in pentax gear is allot of gear in three months....Smells fishy to me...
There is no way, that the camera store who sold this much equipment to one customer would simply not exchange at the very least the body....

Last edited by jgredline; 12-01-2007 at 05:23 PM.
12-01-2007, 07:33 PM   #21
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QuoteQuote:
Personally, I would like to see a pic of the damaged goods...
It is also true that you catch a fly with honey....Bad mouthing and trashing a company on a forum is not going to help you any...If they were to see this post, the damage is done and your out of luck....

$7000.00 in pentax gear is allot of gear in three months....Smells fishy to me...
There is no way, that the camera store who sold this much equipment to one customer would simply not exchange at the very least the body....
If Albert's claims are true, then he is not "bad mouthing and trashing" the company... but quite understandably voicing his complaints here after feeling that Pentax themselves have consistently not taken them seriously. Again if events happened as he says, then the "honey" approach hasn't got him too far. And as far as I know, there is no caveat in Pentax's warranties that says "If you criticise us on an internet forum we will have no obligation to you"...

I have had rubbish service from Canon UK (with a scanner), and service from Pentax UK with which I was less than impressed. Yes, I had disappointing service from two companies. It happens. Neither of them actually damaged my items, but it is not beyond the realms of possibility... liking a company or having good experience of them does not mean it's impossible for them to ever mess up.

It is also not unknown for unscrupulous retailers to try to get out of providing service to their customers, and even to claim that after-sales service is not their problem when it clearly is.

But then of course the rational explanations are never as much fun as the wacky ones about Canikon saboteurs

Albert should definitely upload photos of the damage, but to support his argument and show why he is as disappointed as he says... not because we insist that anyone who wants to make a criticism has to first prove he's not a liar out to destroy the company because we've all turned into conspiracy theorists
12-01-2007, 07:37 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
Personally, I would like to see a pic of the damaged goods...
It is also true that you catch a fly with honey...
I cannot take a photo of the 43mm as Pentax has it. Here is a photo of the K10D. It is quite difficult to photograph the damage, but I outlined it in red. This is the best angle I could get. Very difficult to see in the photos, but quite easy to see in person. You can really notice it when compared to the other sides and my other K10D. You can see where they stuck a putty knife and bent the plastic. It does not seem sealed well anymore.



QuoteQuote:
Bad mouthing and trashing a company on a forum is not going to help you any...If they were to see this post, the damage is done and your out of luck....
How is it I am bad mouthing and trashing Pentax when I am talking about Pentax USA service department and only talking about the situation I have. Are you telling me that if I have an issue about Pentax and make it known, that I am somehow doing harm to Pentax and am out to make them look bad? That is just flat out silly.

I tired to keep this between Pentax and myself. I am not getting the help I need from them. It may be that they are just a tad bit too busy, but that is no reason to ignore my calls and not return them. I came here to ask for help. I had to share my situation as there is a very good chance that someone would have asked me anyway and perhaps someone had a similar issue that they can comment on. If this is damage, then it is done.... but I am not the one who did the damage.

QuoteQuote:
$7000.00 in pentax gear is allot of gear in three months....Smells fishy to me...
There is no way, that the camera store who sold this much equipment to one customer would simply not exchange at the very least the body....
Sorry if you find it difficult to believe that some people are willing to spend large amounts of money on something they use for work and pleasure. I find it insulting to be questioned about it. You know nothing about me and yet imply that I am a liar. I bought everything over the last three months from multiple stores, not just one. Here is a photo of most of my invoices. Would you like copies of my credit card statements to convince you?



I apologize if it seems I am being rude... I do not intend it to... but I am slightly insulted as I feel you are calling me a liar.
12-01-2007, 07:40 PM   #23
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I apologize for my obvious hurtful and inconsiderate comments...
I humbly ask for forgiveness...
javier

12-01-2007, 07:52 PM   #24
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Thanks for the photos, hopefully that will settle that issue.

I see that you bought from Adorama and B&H... both of these are well-respected companies (the same may be true of the others but I don't know them) so it's a shame they couldn't help you.

If more emails or calls to Pentax USA don't help, then I agree contacting Ned Bunnell directly may be the best way to proceed... just explain the situation in full, and keep records of your correspondences with Pentax. If their service department caused the damage you describe, then hopefully someone higher up will realise this is unacceptable and help sort it out for you.
12-01-2007, 08:35 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
AlbertSiegel
I apologize for my obvious hurtful and inconsiderate comments...
I humbly ask for forgiveness...
javier
No worries! Water under the bridge. Thank you so much for being kind about it.
12-01-2007, 08:45 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
Thanks for the photos, hopefully that will settle that issue.

I see that you bought from Adorama and B&H... both of these are well-respected companies (the same may be true of the others but I don't know them) so it's a shame they couldn't help you.

If more emails or calls to Pentax USA don't help, then I agree contacting Ned Bunnell directly may be the best way to proceed... just explain the situation in full, and keep records of your correspondences with Pentax. If their service department caused the damage you describe, then hopefully someone higher up will realise this is unacceptable and help sort it out for you.

My K10D was from Adorama and the 43mm was from Henrys. Henrys would have helped me, but by the time I had asked it was two months. They could not do anything and I felt that they really did want to help. Adorama, while a great store, could not help either as it was well over their 14 return time. I understood that and am not upset. Rules are rules.

I will attempt to try Pentax again on Monday, but I have an assignment that will take all day Monday. I need to help cover the funeral of Sean Taylor at FIU and it looks like it will be an all day media circus. If I am off early enough, I will try to contact Pentax again. If not, then Tuesday it is!
12-02-2007, 08:38 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by AlbertSiegel Quote
My K10D was from Adorama and the 43mm was from Henrys. Henrys would have helped me, but by the time I had asked it was two months. They could not do anything and I felt that they really did want to help. Adorama, while a great store, could not help either as it was well over their 14 return time. I understood that and am not upset. Rules are rules.

I will attempt to try Pentax again on Monday, but I have an assignment that will take all day Monday. I need to help cover the funeral of Sean Taylor at FIU and it looks like it will be an all day media circus. If I am off early enough, I will try to contact Pentax again. If not, then Tuesday it is!
First of all, if you can, send my condolences over to the Taylor family. The man was finally getting things right, and then this happens. Sad.

I would agree with the others that maybe Ned Bunnell can help you. Even in his busy schedule, he finds time (well, at least he used to) to pop in over at DPR and help out some people there who had troubles with Pentax. I guess it wouldn't hurt to send him an e-mail, even if you're gonna call Pentax soon. At least he'd know that there are problems with some service centers. Not a good thing since I do believe he mentioned Pentax pro service in the works.
12-02-2007, 09:42 AM   #28
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That certainly is extensive damage considering they have skewed the seal. It sounds and looks like you got a rookie at the repair centre or someone who is fairly heavy handed in their craft as others have reported satisfactory results. Unfortunately you cant rule out the human factor in this instance but that should not be your cross to bear..the customer is always right!! Try and get in touch with Ned Bunnel through his blog site as others have mentioned.

Last edited by Kaimarx; 12-02-2007 at 11:56 AM.
12-02-2007, 12:46 PM   #29
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Have never seen a company "ruin" equipment during repair. It could happen though. All the camera companies do a good job repairing things. Try other electronics categories to know how well we have it here. All the camera companies are swamped with repairs at the moment. Think how many cameras everyone is selling now. Unfortunately you seem to have had a bad experience.
They can't replace the 43 with another silver because they don't have any more. Hasn't been on the price list for over a year. Only black. May be available in other countries from the Pentax reps there. There may be some silver ones for sale from dealers. These are older stock.
The lcd screen is hard to judge from the photo. Perhaps a new repair person who wasn't trained as well as needed, or maybe just a bad day for them. It shouldn't happen. This isn't normal for Pentax repair. Try Ned and see if he can't help. Pentax is a nice company. Deal with them all the time. Try dealing with Sony once.
thanks
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12-02-2007, 05:57 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
First of all, if you can, send my condolences over to the Taylor family. The man was finally getting things right, and then this happens. Sad.
It is a very sad situation, but a common one in this part of the United Sates. I am a bit surprised at the attention his death is getting.... then again he is very well known.

Everything starts at 11:00am tomorrow. I must be there by 6:00am to secure a good spot for me and my co-workers. I have no idea what I should take, so I plan to take everything other than my limiteds. Might be one of the few times I use my slow 400mm lens. Nobody from the media will be able to speak with the family as far as i know. I think it will be shown on CNN live. I really won't know what will happen till it does.

I will try to post some photos if anyone is interested.
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