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10-03-2011, 05:53 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
We are getting to be afraid to use them in public lest we be accused of being some sort of evil person.

That would very accurately describe my situation yesterday at the annual cider festive. The one shot would have been the 2 year old trying to lift a pumpkin weighing at least 3 times her body weight. I did not dare take that single frame so instead, I have a lot of background shots of milling people.

10-03-2011, 07:52 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
We are getting to be afraid to use them in public lest we be accused of being some sort of evil person.
Now you sound like you're in the UK

The whole paranoia thing is getting out of control. People w/ P&S have longer zooms so that'd be my choice if were going to shoot child pr0n
In Boston, they're trying to license knives, because obviously inanimate objects are so much easier to control than the live ones they keep catch/releasing who are using knives/guns they stole
10-03-2011, 10:23 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mareket Quote
I'll confess that I'll wear my DSLR everywhere I go, just in case I see a shot that I NEED to get, but the majority of the time, if I'm not on a job, I want to enjoy the place I'm in, so I don't really shoot much.
+1 I often carry my camera for the same reason...just in case. This past weekend, I took it to an arts festival. Primarily though, I was there to enjoy the event with my wife and parents so I never even took the lens cap off of my camera. I'd love to have a more pocketable set-up to carry on such occasions, but I don't so I carry my DSLR.
10-03-2011, 10:31 AM   #19
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I'd like a digital version of my Voigtlander Vitessa L or Retina IIIc, or of some of the Japanese rangefinders of the 70's. Compact, quiet, a fast lens, APC sensor, good eyelevel finder, auto exposure, auto focus, and a rangefinder, RAW, etc. And affordable, which the new Fuji isn't for me. Don't need a zoom. Don't need a real time viewing screen on the back. I hold a camera to my eye, NOT at arm's length, for heaven's sake! Can you imagine Henri Cartier-Bresson holding his camera at arm's length?

10-03-2011, 11:21 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by grhazelton Quote
I'd like a digital version of my Voigtlander Vitessa L or Retina IIIc, or of some of the Japanese rangefinders of the 70's. Compact, quiet, a fast lens, APC sensor, good eyelevel finder, auto exposure, auto focus, and a rangefinder, RAW, etc. And affordable, which the new Fuji isn't for me. Don't need a zoom. Don't need a real time viewing screen on the back.
One might think that such would be fairly straightforward to produce -- but probably without the RF. It would be rather a pumped-up version of my decade-old P&S, the cheap Sony DSC-P20. Normal-FL prime lens (roughly equivalent to 43/2.7), no 'scenes', uncompressed TIF as well as JPG, color+B&W, good-size OVF (but the little screen is *is* handy for composing in B&W). Give it a larger sensor, 2-stop faster lens and CPU, and RAW output, and it would be just dandy. As long at it's cheaper than a dSLR.

But offerings in that neighbourhood HAVEN'T been cheaper than a dSLR -- more like about twice the price of a basic Rebel or equivalent. ?Por que? Simpler mechanics and electronics and overall design, fewer controls, no need for the latest densest sensor, should all keep the cost down. Would you jump for a 10mpx APS-C Retina-D for US$300? Yeah, and I'm still waiting for my atomic helicopter too.
10-03-2011, 11:49 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
One might think that such would be fairly straightforward to produce -- but probably without the RF. It would be rather a pumped-up version of my decade-old P&S, the cheap Sony DSC-P20. Normal-FL prime lens (roughly equivalent to 43/2.7), no 'scenes', uncompressed TIF as well as JPG, color+B&W, good-size OVF (but the little screen is *is* handy for composing in B&W). Give it a larger sensor, 2-stop faster lens and CPU, and RAW output, and it would be just dandy. As long at it's cheaper than a dSLR.

But offerings in that neighbourhood HAVEN'T been cheaper than a dSLR -- more like about twice the price of a basic Rebel or equivalent. ?Por que? Simpler mechanics and electronics and overall design, fewer controls, no need for the latest densest sensor, should all keep the cost down. Would you jump for a 10mpx APS-C Retina-D for US$300? Yeah, and I'm still waiting for my atomic helicopter too.
Bring on that Retina-D!

My guess is that the perceived market for the sort of camera you and I described is thought to be small. Canikon and Pentax, et al, seem to feel and may well have data to support the view that the great majority of casual shooters want a point and shoot, or a fixed-lens super zoom with electronic view finder. Lots of bang for the buck, regardless of quality. Another sizeable group want a DSLR. They doubtless feel that the market for a digital Retina D or Vitessa L would be too small to warrant tooling costs. I wonder how many of the high-end Canikons "point and shoot" with RAW, etc, are sold?

Fuji's effort is a marvel. But I can't afford it. Suppose someone brought out the same sort of camera but with fewer features for the $300 RioRico mentioned. Surely a decent f2 fixed focal length fixed lens is cheaper than a 10 to 1 zoom. Mount it to a body with an APC sensor, taken right off a DSLR along with CPU and view screen and add a good 1 to 1 bright frame OVF (like the M-3). All the development costs for the sensor, etc., would have long since been recouped via DSLR sales. A 10 MP sensor would be enough. Sort of a digital Yashica Lynx. A small camera easy to take anywhere, but capable of real quality. Like a digital Retina IIIc or Vitessa L. Yessssss........

I wonder how many they might sell....

And how many people buy a DSLR, regardless of make, and never realize its capabilites? I'd bet many if not most buyers of the low end DSLRs of any make might be served as well with a good point and shoot. (Harking back to the original thread topic.)

And by the way, no atomic helicopter for me! Considering the way most people drive it would be aerial carnage....
10-03-2011, 01:09 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by grhazelton Quote
And by the way, no atomic helicopter for me! Considering the way most people drive it would be aerial carnage....
And??

Is that a problem?



But I digress. Military staffs regularly game (simulate) all the possible strategic situations they expect to have a remote chance of encountering. I'm sure the Pentagon has a plan or three for dealing with mutant squids overwhelming Santa Barbara. And I'm sure that camera-maker bean-counters have gamed and focus-grouped and crunched numbers on all possible camera variations. And those of us desiring a digital Lynx, lose. Oh bother. Send those mutant telepathic squids to Tokyo! Use mind-control to change the game!
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