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12-19-2006, 11:27 PM   #16
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Adobe PhotoShop Elements 5.0 Win (which is all you need) is about AUD$140... Worth it though I think..

12-19-2006, 11:47 PM   #17
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Actually I have PS and several versions of PSE, I was just being silly.
12-20-2006, 12:35 AM   #18
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What about GIMP? It's free.
12-20-2006, 03:24 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
The main (killing) problem that Phil Askey points out in his review is that tune up the sharpness setting in jpeg modes do NOT help to improve/increase edge sharpness and he really doubts about why the setting won't effect.

I concur with Phil Askey and indeed find this to be very strange..
Phil's review stated "In Camera" sharpening had little effect. I think the quote in my OP explains that. The edges are thinner and finer. My experience with PSC2 and CS3b is that both USM and Smart Sharpening work extremely well with K10D files. And it is NOT a "killing problem" Even Phil said it is not noticeable below A3 and is a matter of taste.

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
That is, WHY people need to post process a 8-bit compressed JPEG instead of shooting RAW and convert if PP is so important to them?
This makes no sense to me at all. Conventional wisdom dictates that for best results, you should process as much as possible on the 16bit linear file (the raw file). This is the least destructive to the files pixels. What you can't do in raw should be done in 16 bit mode. The more color depth in the file as you manipulate tone curves, the less likely you will end up with color banding. This precisely why Adobe's new ACR 4.0 does so much more than 3.x. An awful lot of what I would normally do in Photoshop proper, I can now do in ACR before it is converted to my format of choice.

The last place you should manipulate a file is in 8 bit jpeg. You have the least amount of head room. Now, a well exposed in camera jpeg can stand a moderate amount of processing, without damaging the file so that it is noticeable, but if it needs extreme help, you're going to be a lot better off if it were a raw file.

To advocate doing all your processing in b 8 bit jpeg just is totally contrary to what I have been taught, and what my experience has shown.

Cheers
-Alan

12-20-2006, 03:28 AM   #20
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The real question seem to be if there really is an edge sharpness problem in the K10D as such, or if it's just something related to 'Natural' mode. I posted something about it here (with examples), but didn't get any response yet. I also wonder how the K10D would have performed in the resolution test if RAW images were compared instead of JPGs (and why the resolution tests are done in JPG only).
12-20-2006, 04:21 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by roscot Quote
Ok, first, I don't dare post this over at DPR in fear of my life. I'm not trying start anything here, I just think people are really over emphasizing this deal.

Let me first say I really like the way this camera images a scene,whether in RAW or Jpeg. With all the cr*p flying about soft jpegs, something I read kept tickling the back of my mind. That this is precisely how the camera is suppose to be.
I just think its very interesting that up until the dpreview K10D review was submitted I saw no DPR forum comments posted about concerns over 'soft' jpgs and now of course many people are posting furiously about Pentax's 'soft jpg problem'. On the other hand there was a flurry of anxiety about 'banding' before Phil's review was uploaded and then the K10D review mentioned absolutely nothing about that.
12-20-2006, 04:27 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by dLight Quote
The real question seem to be if there really is an edge sharpness problem in the K10D as such, or if it's just something related to 'Natural' mode. I posted something about it here (with examples), but didn't get any response yet. I also wonder how the K10D would have performed in the resolution test if RAW images were compared instead of JPGs (and why the resolution tests are done in JPG only).
On that subject I thought this was interesting.. K10 vs K100 comparison images: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
12-20-2006, 04:36 AM   #23
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For k10d, Jpegs are not soft at all. Whatever the debate is all about, I switched over to pentax system because of the image quality from pentax lenses and bodies. I see the quality of shots from Joele's cams.

I still have my 7 canon L primes and 3 L zooms sitting on my desk. I am waiting for a better "full frame" canon body to match the current lens line-up. And I see the differences in image quality between these two brands.

k10d works fine and I have been shooting Jpegs in k10 all these time. No fuss at all. A former RAW shooter here too. I am waiting for bibblepro to come up the update version for k10d raw format.

These are not sharp? straight out of jpegs unprocessed!

fa31 ltd


fa31ltd


sigma 70-200/2.8


A*300 f2.8


Fa77 ltd


sigma 70-200/2.8


k10d is a great camera. Full stop.


Last edited by roentarre; 12-20-2006 at 05:21 PM.
12-20-2006, 04:58 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by roentarre Quote
For k10d, Jpegs are not soft at all. Whatever the debate is all about, I switched over to pentax system because of the image quality from pentax lenses and bodies. I see the quality of shots from Joele's cams.

I still have my 7 canon L primes and 3 L zooms sitting on my desk. I am waiting for a better "full frame" canon body to match the current lens line-up. And I see the differences in image quality between these two brands.

k10d works fine and I have been shooting Jpegs in k10 all these time. No fuss at all. A former RAW shooter here too. I am waiting for bibblepro to come up the update version for k10d raw format.

These are not sharp? straight out of jpegs unprocessed!

...............
k10d is a great camera. Full stop.
They all look very good and sharp to me! I think the edge sharpness that some have an issue with is merely a personal preference.
12-20-2006, 04:59 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by roentarre Quote
A former RAW shooter here too. I am waiting for bibblepro to come up the update version for k10d raw format.
Just read on Bibble forum that the update is almost ready, be very soon apparently..
12-20-2006, 12:25 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by roentarre Quote
For k10d, Jpegs are not soft at all. Whatever the debate is all about, I switched over to pentax system because of the image quality from pentax lenses and bodies. I see the quality of shots from Joele's
k10d is a great camera. Full stop.
What lenses were you using for these shots? What camera settings, bright-natural, in camera sharpening setting etc? They are excellent shots.
12-20-2006, 05:23 PM   #27
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hi Peted. Neutral setting and no PP. Jpegs straight out of the camera. Av setting (my preferred mode anyway)

The lenses are listed above each photo already edited.

I think the colour is just amazing with pentax lens line up in DS 100d and k10d!!
12-20-2006, 06:18 PM   #28
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Hi roentarre,
You raise an excellent point...what IS wrong with the sharpness in those photos you posted.

I would really like to hear one of the detractors explain this...not for mischievous reasons....but I am actually interested to know how they could be sharper.

Its a bit like the DS jpeg thing, I have used it time & time again only to have people say good things about the photos.

Cheers
Grant
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