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12-10-2007, 05:44 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
If you've been reading the forums for awhile (and welcome BTW) then I hope you've learned to ignore Rice Highs comments. He only pops in to threads where he sees an opportunity to crap on Pentax. He couldn't shoot a photo if his mother's life depended on it no matter what the brand or system.
haha, yes. I saw that he had posted and just kept scrolling to read everyone elses posts. although skimming back over it, there are so many things wrong with what he has said, it would take me too long to go through it all.

Back to the topic. I have heard that the pentax AF-C set up has a few quirks but i havnt encountered them yet.

There is a guy on this forum called Adam who i think is extremely talented when it comes to shooting fast moving things (cars). You may want to see some of his work here.

12-10-2007, 07:00 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
The continuous AF of any Pentax DSLR is pathetic, and so does the tracking ability over frames. If you have handled a Nikon or Canon upper level DSLR side by side, the huge difference can be seen.

What make things worse is the unable-to-keep-up C-AF will slow down the continuous shooting frame rate significantly when the camera is waiting for the AF.

Besides the slow and non-intelligent C-AF, the Pentax AF system is particularly insensitive and sluggish at lower light conditions, which makes even AF Single mode less useful and reliable under such condition. The worst thing is that for all Pentax DSLRs I have used, including the K10D, will never give accurate focus but Front Focusing under tungsten light, which is ususally the light source at low light.

As for your question on which focus point the camera will choose, the user can choose whether the central single focus point is used or let the camera to choose amongst the eleven points, no difference from Single AF mode. This design is very different from what Canon do, though. In continuous AF mode of Canon DSLRs and if multi AF points are activated, tracking shall always be started from the central point and the camera will track the moving subjects when they are moving out of the central frame.

In fact, if you activate all the 11 focus points and put the camera in AF-C mode, it is actually rather sluggish to be usable, for the K10D. If you compare with the Canon design in making the central point as the first tracking point in the beginning, you can see why Pentax's design can be even much more sluggish when all AF points are activated - it is actually impossible to have all the 11 points activated and doing the measurements at the *same* time at the beginning of the measurement.

Anyway, in short, even only the central single AF sensor is selected and only one frame is taken, the AF-C function of the K10D is still sub-par, as you mentioned. It will never fast and accurate enough to track fast moving subjects, especially for those randomly moving ones and/or towards or away from the camera.
Sooo... since you're the K10 expert, I take it you finally bought one? :ugh:

I am also amazed that predictive AF on C&N cameras is so good it is able to predict random movements... surely they have patented that!

As to K10's inability to focus accurately under tungsten light... I must be a very lucky guy, most of my family portraits are taken under low tungsten light and most of them are pin-point in focus on the eyes of my subjects... this is really getting old...
12-10-2007, 08:46 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jodokast96 Quote
Wow, learned something new. I'll have to keep that technique in mind.
Techniques and good camera automation performances do not have conflicts of any kind to either. In contrast, they complement each other well in many occasions.
12-10-2007, 08:48 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Sooo... since you're the K10 expert, I take it you finally bought one? :ugh:

I am also amazed that predictive AF on C&N cameras is so good it is able to predict random movements... surely they have patented that!

As to K10's inability to focus accurately under tungsten light... I must be a very lucky guy, most of my family portraits are taken under low tungsten light and most of them are pin-point in focus on the eyes of my subjects... this is really getting old...
You know I have not bought the K10D since I have been looking at it before it was released and up till now. There is always just a simply reason, i.e., it falls short in many ways to meet my user requirements.

Btw, what/which lens(es) and f-number(s) did you use for your "pinpointing" focus portrait shots taken?

12-10-2007, 08:57 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
You know I have not bought the K10D since I have been looking at it before it was released and up till now. There is always just a simply reason, i.e., it falls short in many ways to meet my user requirements.

Btw, what/which lens(es) and f-number(s) did you use for your "pinpointing" focus portrait shots taken?
Mostly FA 50f1.4 @ f2.0-2.8 (f1.4 lacks contrast IMO and is too shallow) and recently DA* 50-135@f2.8: an amazing lens for portraits!

But I also used the DA 50-200 @200mm f5.6 from less than 1,5m and FA 135f2.8 @2.8 from just about any distance.
12-10-2007, 10:18 AM   #21
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Hi,

From another "considering the K10D" shopper: As I have toddlers breaking the sound barrier, good continuous AF is important to me too.

From a price point of view, I suppose the K10D should be compared to canon 400D/xti, Nikon D40x and Sony alpha 100, whereas Nikon D80 and Canon 30D/40D are in a higher price bracket. I know that the 40D and D80 have better AF, but how does the K10D compare to those "lower level" cameras in terms of AF?

Thanks,

Jens
12-10-2007, 11:05 AM   #22
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I was lucky enough to borrow an XT (pretty much the same thing as the XTi) for a month before I even had my K10D. I don't see any real difference between the two of them. They both did what I needed them to do (mostly kids soccer games) with no problems. The only issue I ever ran into was actually keeping the lens on them.
12-10-2007, 11:23 AM   #23
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12-10-2007, 03:27 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
You know I have not bought the K10D since I have been looking at it before it was released and up till now. There is always just a simply reason, i.e., it falls short in many ways to meet my user requirements.
Yeah, that sub-par tracking autofocus on the K10D would leave you at a real disadvantage when taking shots of those fast moving test charts and brick walls.


The fast moving shooting I've done, which isn't a huge amount, I found that using all the AF points in AF-C mode was a lot better than forcing the camera to rely on the center only. Allowed the camera to switch points when the subject moves out of center range briefly before you can pan to catch up.
12-10-2007, 03:46 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Techniques and good camera automation performances do not have conflicts of any kind to either. In contrast, they complement each other well in many occasions.
Huh? WTF does that say??? Allow me to directly translate: ljahdfvb kajrf kajsdn giusmdu jmdju sdjms kal sj si djjs kshujrnf krjfn cu wkcnw dusmsnj wjhlksjddfnf.

Makes about the same amount of sense.

QuoteOriginally posted by Maxington Quote
Yeah, that sub-par tracking autofocus on the K10D would leave you at a real disadvantage when taking shots of those fast moving test charts and brick walls.
You crack me up. I needed that!!
12-10-2007, 07:46 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Maxington Quote
The fast moving shooting I've done, which isn't a huge amount, I found that using all the AF points in AF-C mode was a lot better than forcing the camera to rely on the center only. Allowed the camera to switch points when the subject moves out of center range briefly before you can pan to catch up.
I found this wasn't useful taking tennis photos...way too many shots locked on the wall behind the players :-)
I haven't tried other camera systems, but I expected it to try to maintain lock on the moving subjects :-P
12-10-2007, 08:21 PM   #27
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Choosing the K10D would not be a mistake by anymeans, The autofocus works fine with af-c I shoot alot of my son's hockey practices and games and daughters basketball games with no issues. The only issue I run into some times is the camera operator (Practice makes Perfect).
With regards to RH, AW never mind consider the source let that be that. (CLUELESS!!!)
12-10-2007, 11:20 PM   #28
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I just love it RH on one hand - Rockwell on the other

QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
Huh? WTF does that say??? Allow me to directly translate: ljahdfvb kajrf kajsdn giusmdu jmdju sdjms kal sj si djjs kshujrnf krjfn cu wkcnw dusmsnj wjhlksjddfnf.

Makes about the same amount of sense.

You crack me up. I needed that!!
Just remember what RH is:
"Online Expert or Armchair Photographer: Level 0 (these guys don't take pictures so they aren't a level of photographer.)"
Seven Levels of Photographers 2005 KenRockwell.com

I do not really care for either of them - one is the poster child for the other - you gotta love this.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL
12-11-2007, 05:40 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Workingdog Quote
Hi everyone,
I've been following the forum for some time and have gained a lot of knowledge, so first off thanks for a great forum. I've done my research and plan on purchasing K10d paired with either the Tamron 18-250 or Tamron 17-50 for starters. My one reservation is Pentax's supposed below par performance with autofocus tracking of moving subjects. A lot of my photos will be taken outdoors in relatively good light with moving subjects. Should this be a concern for me? A deal breaker? I'm interested in hearing from folks who have hands-on experience with the camera under these conditions. Are there certain camera settings that can be made to optimize the camera's focus tracking performance; AFs vs. AFc, center focus vs letting the camera choose, etc.?
Workingdog
You should go to a camera store and try each camera (c&n#n and N@k#n) with the same lens, perhaps point the camera out the store window/door and photograph moving cars on the street. Then decide for yourself.

I have used pentax AF cameras since the PZ-1, and the only time my AF got it really wrong, was when I put my daughter (then 3) on a swing. The camera had a real problem with predicting reversal of direction, but to be fair, I doubt any camera can accurately predict anything other than linear motion. Maybe (and I don't often do this) RiceHigh can add a useful comment here on how the High End c&n#n and N@k#n cameras work.
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