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12-12-2007, 08:32 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom M Quote
The reference to Firmware version 1.30 is to insure your's is up to date. I say this because some folks had experienced vertical banding and poor low-light performance with the K10D early on. Updateing the firmware, I believe at the time it was 1.10 or 1.20, seemed to fix the issue, so, since it doesn't make sense to download anything but the latest firmware, I mentioned 1.30 instead. If you don't want to download to see if it will fix your camera, that's fine with me.
That vertical banding is still very very evident if using the 1.3 firmware in low light, and picture's histogram is exposed "to the left of center". I gotta million of'em.

12-12-2007, 08:52 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by m8o Quote
That vertical banding is still very very evident if using the 1.3 firmware in low light, and picture's histogram is exposed "to the left of center". I gotta million of'em.
Ditto. And this isn't just a matter of "oh, you got the wrong exposure" -- it occurs in shadow areas where other parts of the scene have better light.
12-12-2007, 10:07 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom M Quote
Basically, if your firmware version on the K10D is 1.30 and you have more noise than the K100D at ISO1600, I'd send the unit back 'cuz you have a dud..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom M
The reference to Firmware version 1.30 is to insure your's is up to date. I say this because some folks had experienced vertical banding and poor low-light performance with the K10D early on. Updateing the firmware, I believe at the time it was 1.10 or 1.20, seemed to fix the issue, so, since it doesn't make sense to download anything but the latest firmware, I mentioned 1.30 instead. If you don't want to download to see if it will fix your camera, that's fine with me.


QuoteOriginally posted by m8o Quote
That vertical banding is still very very evident if using the 1.3 firmware in low light, and picture's histogram is exposed "to the left of center". I gotta million of'em.
QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Ditto. And this isn't just a matter of "oh, you got the wrong exposure" -- it occurs in shadow areas where other parts of the scene have better light.
So, there is NO noise, or noise reduction improvement due to K10D firmware updates?
12-12-2007, 11:10 AM   #19
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All I can say is.. I 'expose to the right' as much as possible, just before blowing the highlights and I don't have any issues with banding or noise. IF I'm sloppy and don't properly expose, I get noise. As a side note, I use firmware version 1.00. I guess it all depends on who's taking the pictures?

You know, a while back Justin Serpico posted a good thread on photo.net about proper exposure with the K10D and low-noise photos. I think the subject matter was ice hockey if memory serves right. I remember reading and thinking, he *gets it* too.

Here's the thread.. Pentax Forum: Is it hype? Or does the K10D do just fine at high ISO? - photo.net

It might be worth mentioning that Godfrey DiGiorgi agrees as well. I have no doubt that it's just user ignorance.


Last edited by Tom M; 12-12-2007 at 11:35 AM.
12-12-2007, 11:29 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
So, there is NO noise, or noise reduction improvement due to K10D firmware updates?
As I understand it, there was a specific problem which caused some of the VPN issues which was fixed in 1.10. ("In rare case, vertical stripe at long time exposure.")
12-12-2007, 11:34 AM   #21
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Last attempt.. Read this thread here Pentax Forum: Is it hype? Or does the K10D do just fine at high ISO? - photo.net
12-12-2007, 12:06 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom M Quote
The reference to Firmware version 1.30 is to insure your's is up to date. I say this because some folks had experienced vertical banding and poor low-light performance with the K10D early on. Updateing the firmware, I believe at the time it was 1.10 or 1.20, seemed to fix the issue, so, since it doesn't make sense to download anything but the latest firmware, I mentioned 1.30 instead. If you don't want to download to see if it will fix your camera, that's fine with me.
QuoteOriginally posted by Tom M Quote
All I can say is.. I 'expose to the right' as much as possible, just before blowing the highlights and I don't have any issues with banding or noise. IF I'm sloppy and don't properly expose, I get noise. As a side note, I use firmware version 1.00. I guess it all depends on who's taking the pictures?

Sorry am I misunderstanding you.....
do you have firmware v1.30 in your K10D or v1.00?

Most dSLRs perform quite admirably at high ISOs espcially when compared to the typical compact -
and I think the K10D does as well.

When used in good lighting even ISO1600 is hard to fault for any practical photo - again this is so for the K10D - so it's not really any additional revelation.

But the original contention was that the K10D does better than the K100D at high ISOs.

I'd agree about K10D's ISO1600 being better than the K100D's ISO3200 -
but still feel the K100D is better than the K10D at the same ISO1600 -
of course YMMV and opinions differ.
12-12-2007, 12:47 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom M Quote
All I can say is.. I 'expose to the right' as much as possible, just before blowing the highlights and I don't have any issues with banding or noise. IF I'm sloppy and don't properly expose, I get noise. As a side note, I use firmware version 1.00. I guess it all depends on who's taking the pictures?

You know, a while back Justin Serpico posted a good thread on photo.net about proper exposure with the K10D and low-noise photos. I think the subject matter was ice hockey if memory serves right. I remember reading and thinking, he *gets it* too.

Here's the thread.. Pentax Forum: Is it hype? Or does the K10D do just fine at high ISO? - photo.net

It might be worth mentioning that Godfrey DiGiorgi agrees as well. I have no doubt that it's just user ignorance.
I studied up on ETTR and saw some good points in there. My limited testing indicates that I get the best results when I expose so that I get just one or two very small highlight flashes. I seem to be able to do more with those exposures, and the shadows are not as noisy as they might be. My testing continues, but I do, unfortunately have a life other than my new toys.

12-12-2007, 12:57 PM   #24
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UnknownVT.. Not sure how you're being confused, especially since you managed to quote exactly what I said.. And that was, I suggested that you update your camera to firmware version 1.30 - it was a suggestion, an attempt to help you. I also told you that I use version 1.00.. What's there to misunderstand?

If you're still under the misguided assumption that the K10D has worse ISO1600 images than that of the K100D, then I guess we're all just going to have to live with that. Though, while I'm out shooting nice clean ISO1600 images with my K10D, you can keep posting up some half-assed shots from some reviewers who didn't care to expose the photos properly. Not to mention, for a static product shot like those you linked to, any one of us K10D shooters could have killed the noise in those shots by simply selecting; Menu / Multi-Exposure / Number of shots = 3 / EV balancing = Yes... The resulting single image would likely be cleaner than the K100D at ISO800.. lol

And remember, your original remark was based on more or less noise. Not what looks better or who thinks what.. And to that I say, the K10D has less noise at ISO1600. Of course, I say this under the assumption that folks are properly exposing for high ISO shots.. That's all I have to say on the matter.

Last edited by Tom M; 12-12-2007 at 01:04 PM.
12-12-2007, 01:03 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
I studied up on ETTR and saw some good points in there. My limited testing indicates that I get the best results when I expose so that I get just one or two very small highlight flashes. I seem to be able to do more with those exposures, and the shadows are not as noisy as they might be. My testing continues, but I do, unfortunately have a life other than my new toys.
As is discussed in that thread, yes, you will get nice images if you expose to the point of near blow-out on the highlights. Also, you should be working with RAW images when making any exposure adjustments. If you convert to JPG and then start to lighten the photo up, you'll get noise.
12-12-2007, 01:10 PM   #26
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that's true

QuoteOriginally posted by FotoPete Quote
oh yea haha I thought my GX-1L was loud. When I fire off the K100D, everyone's head turns. I also found that different lenses modify the flap sound a bit.
I think you're spot on with the loudness of the K100D's shutter. One of the very few bad things I can say about it. But then sometimes it's nice do draw the attention , but sometimes not

Does anybody know why defferent lenses modify the flab sound?!?
12-12-2007, 01:12 PM   #27
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Not sure why but, my Vivitar Series 1 105mm f2.5 is louder than either of the DA 50-200 or the DA 16-45... Though, none are quiet.. lol
12-12-2007, 01:14 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom M Quote
As is discussed in that thread, yes, you will get nice images if you expose to the point of near blow-out on the highlights. Also, you should be working with RAW images when making any exposure adjustments. If you convert to JPG and then start to lighten the photo up, you'll get noise.
I shoot RAW, not even RAW+. Photo software can produce very nice jpegs.
12-12-2007, 01:26 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
I shoot RAW, not even RAW+. Photo software can produce very nice jpegs.
I switch up depending on what I think the end images will be used for.. friends and family only get JPG images.. lol - My landscape and architecture shots usually only get RAW images - though, I will often shoot RAW+ JPG so that I can make in-camera adjustments and have those adjustments to visually look at if I'm not using the Pentax software.. A good example is when I was last in Europe.. I was using everyone's and anyone's computer to pull images off the cards and burn to discs so, having edited JPG's to look at on the spot was very handy..

Last edited by Tom M; 12-12-2007 at 01:36 PM.
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