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12-20-2006, 08:40 AM   #1
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The hang with DP review! here is a real unbias test of the k10!

This is done by popular photography, from people they are just as qualified to test the k10. besides, this magazine has been around much longer then DP.
It seems that the k10 is much better then what dp is giving it.... read for yourself.....not as long, but right to the point...
Camera Test: Pentax K10D - - PopPhotoJanuary 2007

let me know what you think

randy

12-20-2006, 09:19 AM   #2
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i had seen this before DPR review and others as well...bottom line i have been using pentax for 25+ years and i am not willing or ready to let others move me away from the brand loyalty. i shopped for my first dslr a few years back open minded to nikon and canon and others. i put the ist ds in my hands and instantly new that was where i was going to start with a dslr, the k10d was want more than need, but i had the same experience...wanted the features of shake reduction, weather seal, and faster AF...the image quality - i take as a given with pentax, the feel of the camera is great and i got the features i wanted.
12-20-2006, 09:29 AM   #3
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That's seem more realistic results than the ones of DP knowing the quality of Pentax DSLR and the test shot I could see on internet.
Cheers
12-20-2006, 09:32 AM   #4
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I just decided to stay away from DPReview for as long as it takes for all of this BS to wash out. The constant quarreling and gnashing of teeth along with the general nastiness is way over the top.

The Nikon forum was once a pretty nasty place but right now it's like a church fellowship hall compared to the Pentax forum.

Glad to see the Pop Photo mini-review and will be happier when others follow. That's the only thing that'll stop the insanity.

As for me:

Dell says they'll ship my K10 the first week of January. How am I going to wait all that time. I suppose I can read and re-read the manuals I downloaded the other day.

Meanwhile I'll continue to shoot with my FZ20 Panasonic.

Dan

12-20-2006, 09:58 AM   #5
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WOW! finally someone is going to read the manual ! If more people did there wouldn't be anything for them to rant about.The big problem with the k10 is not calling "bright mode" something like "crisp mode" or" you are a genius mode".I think you will be very happy with it ,I love my new k10d !
12-20-2006, 10:38 AM   #6
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I stopped reading Phil's laboratory tests and ratings a long time ago. First part describing features still OK, but the validity of the test procedures is at least questionable! (I was tempted to use more explicit word, but let's stay polite here.)

As I pointed out at DPreview, take for example his shake reduction test: it is hand-held and then statistics are computed based on only 20 samples. The major problem? Here it is: one day Phil may have a good night sleep and healthy breakfast then grab Sony A100 to do his SR test. The week after he may be returning from a long trans Atlantic flight, and after drinking two strong coffees in the morning to stay awake grabbing K10D to test SR. I will let you guess the A100 vs K10D shake reduction efficiency test results!

Also, what that 7.5 means? I wasn't lazy so I browsed other camera reviews. Any surprises? You bet! I found several compact 6-10MP P&S cameras with image quality rated 8.0 or 8.5. When I extended my criteria, I've found a universe of 2 to 6MP P&S compact cameras with image quality rated better than 7.5, going even up to 9.0.

Then, why would one buy $1,000 camera with image quality of 7.5 while there are smaller and much cheaper cameras ($300) with image quality of 9.0? Serious question! Of course, we know why but we don't need Phil to tell us. Unlike us, people who do not understand why may be listening to Phil buying wrong cameras.

So, is there any value in those arbitrary ratings expressed in non-standardized "how-I-feel-this-morning" units? I think the answer is no.
12-20-2006, 11:17 AM   #7
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I disagree with some of DP's findings, I've only shot 5 jpgs with the K10d b4 changing to RAW, images printed nicely. The argument is way out of hand.
The K10d is an advanced camera, which pretty much translates into doing post processing to get the most out of the image.
Need razor sharp, straight out of the camera? buy a PS.
12-20-2006, 04:46 PM   #8
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I still enjoy Phils site for the forums.. but his reviews are.. well they are what they are.


I too am waiting on Dell to ship.. maybe I had better brush up on the manual.

BTW.. Magic Latern Guides for K100D are available from Ritz Camera.. its a excellent companion to the K100D manual

12-20-2006, 05:29 PM   #9
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I always loved to read popular photography as they are free in my local library. hehe.

It reflects my own experience with the camera and I will leave it as it is.

Shadow details are truely amazing with k10d especially when fa31 ltd or fa77 ltd are used. The colour and details are just amazing seriously !!
12-20-2006, 06:00 PM   #10
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I love my K10D. It is a beautiful camera. Have been shooting jpegs ( used to raw with DS). The 8.5x11 prints are great - even in jpeg. Was surprised when K10D jpegs beat out my DS RAW. Just figured out how to convert RAW with Pentax software so will be shooting that way. DPR reviews are very machinelike (or computer person). A pro said that the only way to tell what the shot looked like was to print it. Pixel peeping won't tell all. The K10D is a fine artistic instrument. I worry that pentax has designed it for halfway intelligent people. Not many P&S scene modes. It can be auto - but not its main reason for existence. Pentax built a camera for photographers. Many companies don't really do this.
Roentarre is right the 31 and 77 are something to see on the K10D. Its strange too. I didn't shoot the 31 on the DS that much, but It almost lives on the K10D. Don't know if its the look or balance or what. Maybe its the time of year (not macro time now).
thanks
barondla
12-20-2006, 09:32 PM   #11
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I just handled the K10D for the first time at a local camera store and was very pleased with it. The size was not as large as I imagined either. Its really not much larger or heavier than the K100D which I have now. Now I have a strong urge to buy it. The weather resistance will be very handy in the Amazon and Galapagos in May. Im not sure if I will get it soon or wait for the price to decline.
12-21-2006, 12:22 AM   #12
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I read Phil's reviews only to keep myself informed of the latest happenings in the DSLR front, period.

I've diligently read the speculations, leaked specs of K10D, interviews with Pentax execs etc., ever since Pentax announced a "10MP semi-pro camera" early this year. One thing that was mentioned was the film-like behaviour of K10D. If the K10D lives up to this philosophy, so be it.

I've read people complaining about noise at high ISO. I suggest they should take a film camera load it with an ISO 800 film and see the results for themselves. Early on I used Kodak 400 film. While some of the portraits rendered well, it was bound to give a grainy result. What can you expect out of a DSLR anyway? I started using ISO 100 film/slide later on.

I feel that the joy of photography is not about pixel peeping. It's all about networking, traveling, hiking, praying (to the weather Gods), waiting patiently (for the bee to land on the flower), thinking out-of-the-box and coming up exquisite abstracts and much more... The camera system must enable a person to capture the moment and express the emotion.

I've not dipped my hand in chemicals and processed/printed my negs/slides. However, people who've done it will certainly vouch for it. In this digital era, the rules have changed. I still like to add some "punch" into my pictures. If my camera gives me an opportunity to do this, I'd be doubly happy. Some people may feel JPG must be good out-of-the-camera. But then, as Phil observed, you shouldn't have issues up to A3 size. Beyond that aren't we in the semipro/advanced ametuer zone? These folks will work on their pictures anyway.


p.s. My DSLR experince, of course, comes from the use of borrowed equipment from friends. All that until I take the plunge later next year.
12-21-2006, 06:16 PM   #13
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Evidence the K10 is doing well

QuoteOriginally posted by slipchuck Quote
This is done by popular photography, from people they are just as qualified to test the k10. besides, this magazine has been around much longer then DP.
It seems that the k10 is much better then what dp is giving it.... read for yourself.....not as long, but right to the point...
Camera Test: Pentax K10D - - PopPhotoJanuary 2007

let me know what you think

randy
I've been meaning to reply to this message for a couple days.

I find the flare-up over jpg softness, accusations of bias, and general trolling at DPR to be a case of not seeing the forest for the trees. I said in a DPR post that the forum regulars and 1 reviewer, even as esteemed as Phil, will not impact the success of Pentax.

You want hard evidence? Let's look at some actual numbers of something uncorrelated to Phil's opinion AND that taps into a broader group than just DPR posters.

Let's look at the recent eBay sales for * lenses. $500-650 for the FA24, $1125 for the FA85, $2125 for the FA300. Who knows what for the FA80-200. And its not just one or two auctions. It's happening in ALL auctions. Don't believe me? Well the great thing is you can actually look up the results yourself since the data is public. Here's just 3 finished auctions.

eBay: Pentax SMC FA* 24mm F2 AL (IF) Wide Angle Lens LNIB (item 170044392365 end time Nov-01-06 13:31:56 PST)
eBay: Pentax SMC P-FA* 300mm f/4.5 ED IF AF Telephoto Lens (item 220060064881 end time Dec-17-06 20:22:00 PST)
eBay: Pentax SMC FA 85mm f1.4 Lens for Ist D and K10D (item 150070836629 end time Dec-17-06 19:11:40 PST)

People are not collectively stupid with their money. If Pentax's cameras are bad nobody will shell out their hard earned wages for even premium lenses, especially if they are used and on an auction site that can't guarantee that what-you-buy-is-what-you-get.

If I put on my statistician's hat for a second (I promise I won't do it again), yeah sure you could argue that the data is a bit of a "diffusion index" sorta, kinda. But so what? Directionally the selling prices of these used lenses is clearly strongly upwards.

Good luck to those of you who are trying to build up their * lens collections.
12-21-2006, 08:08 PM   #14
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i had always assumed the rising ebay prices to be connected with pentax cameras predating the K10..

i dont think i have seen anybody saying the K10 is a bad camera either.. just its jpegs arent up to scratch compared to what they should be for a mid to high end dslr..

i have a k100.. it has its faults.. i dont try to pretend they dont exist thow like so many seem to be doing with the k10..

trog
12-21-2006, 08:33 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by trog100 Quote
i had always assumed the rising ebay prices to be connected with pentax cameras predating the K10..

i dont think i have seen anybody saying the K10 is a bad camera either.. just its jpegs arent up to scratch compared to what they should be for a mid to high end dslr..

i have a k100.. it has its faults.. i dont try to pretend they dont exist thow like so many seem to be doing with the k10..

trog
Perhaps the K100 and DS2/DL drove some of the prices momentum, as prices were trending up in the last 2+ years. But these huge jumps in prices have been coincident with the introduction of the K10 in November. You will note that I specifically said recent auctions.

In this case I would say there is a relationship between the correlations.

Oh, you're making me do statistics-talk again! I could go on but I'll stop now and go to my room.

-George
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