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11-15-2011, 11:31 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
Blacks Camera belongs borderline to that category as compared to other stores such as Henrys, Aden, Vistek etc. I believe they do have the k-r but they don't carry the Pentax Q. Unless they have the trained staff with knowledge specific to Pentax products, it is harder to sell when there is none.
Black's is where I got my K-r back in June, they also had the K-x, both in display cases right alongside the comparable canikony models. They told me that "select stores" also carry the K-5, and possibly still have K-7s. They don't carry much in the way of Pentax accessories, but at least they carry the bodies/kits and display them prominently. They were also one of the first up here to drop below the $600 mark for the 18-55 single lens kit.

11-15-2011, 01:35 PM   #62
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From the "camera as a tool in the toolbox" POV, If it does what you want it to do, there's nothing wrong with it.

Like some people already said in the thread though, ALL cameras have things that they do better than others, Pentax included

I'm myself thinking of switching because of Pentax's AF performance and stupid flash system, but I'll keep the K10 + DA 40 just because I love this combo so much, and I'm sure that I'll miss this lens if I let it go. Pentax AF and flash might be adequate for most people though. It certainly was for me for four years.

That said I do think that the camera salesman was very unprofessional. I bet he never used Pentax. Everything after the K100d from Pentax is a stellar performer buck-for-buck compared to the other brands imo.

my 2c

PS. The feel of using K10D with grip + DA limited / takumars with metal hood is second to none, unless you have a leica. IMHO

Last edited by Andi Lo; 11-15-2011 at 01:42 PM.
11-15-2011, 01:47 PM   #63
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I loved my K1o Andy (still do) but the AF improvement on my K7 was substantial and very noticeable (even though i don't use a lot of AF) faster and locks in quicker less hunting even in low light compared to the K10. i hear the K5 is even better. So thay have worked to improve things
Flash I won't comment as i rarely use it
11-15-2011, 08:23 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I loved my K1o Andy (still do) but the AF improvement on my K7 was substantial and very noticeable (even though i don't use a lot of AF) faster and locks in quicker less hunting even in low light compared to the K10. i hear the K5 is even better. So thay have worked to improve things
Flash I won't comment as i rarely use it
I have the K-x, which as far as I know AF wise is just right under the nose of K-7. I still miss shots when things move fast. When things get dark it's hard to focus, even with FA 50. I feel that I need Nikon D7000 or D300(s) for what I want to do. But I think I'll need to borrow one before deciding :x

11-15-2011, 09:16 PM   #65
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The general condescension and disrespect is really disappointing. Even if it's not a negative attitude many people's reaction to the question "did you consider buying a pentax?" would be as though Pentax was some strange foreign brand they'd never heard of or considered. And then there are things like this:





that are just infuriating.
11-16-2011, 05:21 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
I have the K-x, which as far as I know AF wise is just right under the nose of K-7. I still miss shots when things move fast. When things get dark it's hard to focus, even with FA 50. I feel that I need Nikon D7000 or D300(s) for what I want to do. But I think I'll need to borrow one before deciding :x
I think right now, the K5 is pretty equivalent with regard to autofocus capability to the D7000. Maybe a tad slower, a little more precise. If you want a step up in auto focus capability from what Pentax offers, you really need to go to one of the full frame options that Nikon offers like the D700 (or its sequel) or D3 line. The K5 does blow away both the kx and K10 with regard to auto focus speed.
11-16-2011, 07:58 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by lukelbd Quote
And then there are things like this (the video) that are just infuriating.
Pfft. That's not a review. It's just some dink trying to be clever and instead looking like a colossal douche in need of a swift punch to the junk. No one with even two brain cells to rub together would take camera buying advice from this twit. And judging by the comments under the video at YouTube, he hasn't impressed anyone else, either.

Not worth getting worked up over the ramblings of an idiot.
11-16-2011, 11:03 AM   #68
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A couple of points in addition to all the others that have been posted. Pentax was very late to the digital 'party' both in DSLR and P&S, compared to Canon/Nikon. By the time consumers were switching from film to digital in big numbers, Pentax was well behind the curve. I remember purchasing my first Nikon Coolpix two meg digital P&S and Pentax had NOTHING.

Poor marketing strategy and lack of visibility have been poor. I suspect that Hoya treated the Pentax brand as a poor stepchild. Canon and Nikon have been visible in mainstream consumer print publications. Canon has underwritten Art Wolfe's series on PBS along with Nature. Canon has positioned themselves quite well. In spite of whining from 'purists' Canon's strategy to include video capablity in the 5D2 was brilliant and it created an entirely new industry of accessory suppliers to enable indie film makers to use the 5D2 for film-like productions.

The K-5 is a great camera but the world doesn't know about it because it has mainly enabled Pentax to do nothing more than play catchup to a handful of Canon/Nikon models to some degree. On the other hand, the 645D got a huge amount of recognition in the rarified world of digital medium format because of performance, pricing and sheer quality of the product. Pentax needs a 645d type of breakthrough product for the general mid and high end consumer market. A FF 18-20+ meg DSLR with similar features to the K5, improved AF, SOA ISO performance, improved video performance and frame rates, would certainly get my attention.

11-16-2011, 11:28 AM   #69
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Canon was early to Market with DSLR most definitely. (first they made themselves the D30 was a 3.1 MP APSC unit replaced by a 6.1MP D60 a year later). There were a couple of earlier models codeveloped with Kodak from existing film bodies.
But at retail i don't think they really took off until they launched the 10D in 2003
Nikon was actually slower in the DSLR race than Canon even though they too had an early model (D1 2.7MP), for them I think things really began to move in 2004 with he launch of the D70 - Several Nikon shooters I know actually moved to Canon as Nikon was too slow addressing their needs (sound familiar)

Pentax had the D out in 2003 so in plenty of time to compete with the early Canikons

But by this time Canikon already had a strong hold on the market from the Film days. Pentax really began to bleed share at the beginning of the Auto focus era. By the time they released the D they were already struggling. Hoya's purchase actually rationalized the camera division and made it profitable again so I can't fault them. The biggest issue is they never intended to keep it so were unwilling to make the investment beyond what they did to make it a viable sale. Ricoh Seems to have bought it for the long term so I think we will see a very different Pentax as things progress.

As for Early P/S market I'm not sure it was relevant to the development of the DSLR market (at least at the beginning) For the current DSLR market strong P/S presence has been good for brand awareness as people develop and move up. unfortunately the P/S division hasn't been anywhere near as strong (too few models for one. Big Boxes like to have exclusives in this arena in addition to multiple models. Canon, Sony and Nikon all do this well. Sony and Canon are particularly well geared for mass market sales due to their other businesses (Printers and Consumer electronics) Nikon a little less so.
Funnily enough over the years I've seen Pentax Lenses on Other brands P/S cameras that have been better than the Pentax in that category
11-16-2011, 11:30 AM   #70
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The really brilliant thing about the 645D is even if you are invested in another MF system, you can probably make enough selling it off that you can essentially switch to Pentax for free (maybe even turn a profit) and have all the fancy features of a modern DSLR.

Sadly that won't be the case for a Pentax full frame. Not many folks will give up their D3Xs or 1DXs, but you might see some d700, a900 and 5dmkII defectors, particularly if they want the extra weather sealing of a rugged outdoor camera (one area where the 5d2 suffers). Where a Pentax full frame might do well though is in attracting owners of existing entry level cameras who are ready to step up their game, but who feel that another APS-C is too incremental of an upgrade.
11-16-2011, 11:38 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxfield_photo Quote
The really brilliant thing about the 645D is even if you are invested in another MF system, you can probably make enough selling it off that you can essentially switch to Pentax for free (maybe even turn a profit) and have all the fancy features of a modern DSLR.

Sadly that won't be the case for a Pentax full frame. Not many folks will give up their D3Xs or 1DXs, but you might see some d700, a900 and 5dmkII defectors, particularly if they want the extra weather sealing of a rugged outdoor camera (one area where the 5d2 suffers). Where a Pentax full frame might do well though is in attracting owners of existing entry level cameras who are ready to step up their game, but who feel that another APS-C is too incremental of an upgrade.
You can also add bringing in new entry level users when they realise it's a full system. Even if a B&M retailer carries the full apsC line and a good number of lenses it doesn't look like much sitting next to Canon Nikon and Sony . Most of those retailers won't have a 645D sitting there so as nice a unit as it is it doesn't help at the entry level so much. a FF would definitely add some Cachet (and get the Sales force more excited about the brand if it was built like a K5.)

And the other big thing is good targeted advertising needs to be done on a much larger scale than currently. The other 3 names are in your face so much they are like coke and pepsi
we're like Cott's
11-17-2011, 03:28 AM   #72
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Marketing, if there's anything wrong with Pentax that's got to be it, and Ricoh should know by now - that today's market is very different from before, and you can't always rely on the "loyal users" to keep the brand alive. It needs new blood, both inside and outside the company. Majority of entry-level DSLR buyers today (which are probably the biggest in sales volume) don't even know you can change its lenses; they are quick to be fooled by ads and salestalk.

Image. Image is key. Put an expert photographer explaining how superior a Pentax is, and put a sensational world-famous celebrity holding and posing a C/N with another. The latter wins. Because the potential buyers - the bulk of sales - entry level kids - don't even know the former. =)) I'm not saying Pentax should do the same, that would just bust budgets and raise prices, but do something else. Like, Pentax marketing should think "Be Different" to themselves.

And wait, is there even a real marketing division for Pentax? All I know is that there's the head office in Japan, regional offices in other countries, the camera body plant in the Philippines and a lens plant in Vietnam. Even if they can't compete for advertising space, there's still a lot of other promotion methods...
11-17-2011, 05:55 AM   #73
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In South Africa Pentax marketing of any nature has never existed.

Canon dominates, Nikon a close second and now Sony.

Sony established itself over Olympus and Pentax in a very quick time.

Why?

Well Sony predominates in p&s usage here and users of p&s are used to framing via the lcd.

Sony recognized this and developed an slr that had a very very efficient fast lcd focusing - so it was easy for a p&s user to move upwards.

Sony also developed the Nex range which has proved very popular as well
11-17-2011, 06:52 AM   #74
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DigitalRevTv?

QuoteOriginally posted by lukelbd Quote
The general condescension and disrespect is really disappointing. Even if it's not a negative attitude many people's reaction to the question "did you consider buying a pentax?" would be as though Pentax was some strange foreign brand they'd never heard of or considered. And then there are things like this:

Pentax K-r Review (Will Ricoh Kill Pentax?) - YouTube

that are just infuriating.

How come they're so... "objective" when it's a Canon? =))

Some credibility, huh?
11-17-2011, 07:48 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
How come they're so... "objective" when it's a Canon? =))
I have a very low tolerance level for that smarmy little pantywaist.
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