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12-17-2007, 11:10 PM   #16
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Mike,
I think I am beginning to understand. I assume now that ANY "dedicated" flash, as long as the sync voltage is within tolerance, will work with a K10d and produce decent and controlled exposures?
BUT: would I/ or the camera be able to contol the amount of light for any given apperture ( If I wanted o gain/or reduce DOF, for example)

AND... I have seen some nice and inexpensive flashes that say they arent "AUTO" just full TTL.. what does that mean?

Any suggestions on something similar to the 285V but that ALSO has a Sivel feature?

12-18-2007, 07:10 AM   #17
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Not ANY dedicated flash. Dedicated flash with auto modes controlled by a sensor in the flash body. TTL sensors are located in the camera body, and you don't have a TTL sensor anyway.

Even non-dedicated flashes will work just fine.

If you want to set an aperture of your choosing and then have the light output vary according to that, then you're going to need a P-TTL capable flash. On the other hand, you could decide what aperture you want and select one of the auto power ranges on an auto flash accordingly. You might have to adjust your aperture one stop up or down to match the available options on the flash.

Just full TTL means "you can't use it; don't buy it"

I have no idea about units similar to the 285HV but also having swivel.
12-18-2007, 07:41 AM   #18
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Sigma has several flashes that you could use.

The current Sigma EF530 Series ST and SUPER and the earlier EF500DG Series in ST and SUPER.

All have Pa-TTL mode and manual Mode.

Crash
12-18-2007, 07:47 AM   #19
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There are drawbacks to the 500DG ST. The only manual power settings are full blast and 1/16. And with no lcd screen or old-fashioned table of values, you're pretty much limited to guesswork if you want to use manual. Also, there is no way to manually control the zoom, which is annoying if not using modern lenses. And in my experience the P-TTL worked poorly with the kit lens, though it did work perfectly with some old A lenses.

12-18-2007, 07:49 AM   #20
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The ST also does not support high-speed sync, or wireless operation.
12-18-2007, 08:01 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by dresden_phoenix Quote
Mike, I think I see...

SO essentially, what "DEDICATED" means is that the apperture is set for you mechanically by the camra body, and for this you need TTL, or in the case of the k10d... P-ttl? am I off on this.

( The main problem is , as I understand it, that the K10d , UNLIKE the K100D doesnt take TTL, only P-TTL)
NO... ONLY the DS and D have TTL (there is an extra sensor in the mirror box that judges the flash exposure from right off the sensor (and where the problems arise from because of the high reflectivity of the sensor ).
K10, K100's DL do NOT have this sensor. They are p-ttl (pre-flash is used and this is measured from the metering cell and then a "full flash" is calculated from this...). Manual or automatic only.......

QuoteOriginally posted by dresden_phoenix Quote

One more Q.. Ltes say I went if a flsh like the Vivitar 285HV... looking at ebay, for example.. how can I tell if it's "modern"?
That would be hard to tell.
Check here. Looks like th HV's ar relatively safe. It's fairly easy to check the trigger voltage yourself but won't help until after the sale....
Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages
12-18-2007, 09:39 AM   #22
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Vivitar 285HV on eBay

I've been watching the 285HV's on eBay for a couple of weeks, hoping to snag a bargain.

Most of the decent, fully-working examples are selling for around $60, plus shipping of at least $10.

B & H sells the brand new 285HV for $89.95.

If I buy from an eBay seller, I'm taking several chances: the item may not be as good as it looks, it may be an older one with a dangerous trigger voltage, it has no warranty and it may not have all the things that came with it new.

If I buy from B & H, I know I'm getting a brand new unit, with all the accessories, owner's manual, and full warranty. Plus I know that it has a safe trigger voltage.

Given that the price difference isn't that great, I'm about to give up on trying to find a bargain and just buy the darned thing from B & H.
12-18-2007, 10:48 AM   #23
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P-ttl

QuoteOriginally posted by Confused Quote
Hi dresden_phoenix

****snip****

Pentax Through The Lens (P-TTL) metering. It's pretty confusing to the uninitiated....include me in that crowd.....!!!!

Best regards
Richard
Richard P-TTL does not stand for Pentax through the lens but rather Preflash through the lens.
What happens is that a P-TTL flash (canon and nikon have them also) fires a quick preflash that the camera uses to meter the light. The older TTL units did not rely on a preflash to meter but had a dedicated flash sensor. Theoretically P-TTL is more consistant than TTL. (and I imagine cheaper to manufacture)
BTW I own the Pentax 540 and have had absolutely no problems with it.

NaCl(I much prefer the 540 to the Sigma 500DG Super that I owned previously)H2O

12-18-2007, 11:09 AM   #24
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As has been mentioned, you could consider an older Pentax flash.

The AF280T can be had for about $60. Twice that will buy you the AF400T.

These will give you manual flash with several settings of the power, and autoflash (not P-TTL), where the flash sets camera shutter speed and aperture, and decides the exposure.

In my view the loss of P-TTL is not a great deal.

With the Pentax flashes you don't have to worry about trigger voltage being too high.
12-18-2007, 11:38 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ole Quote
As has been mentioned, you could consider an older Pentax flash.

The AF280T can be had for about $60. Twice that will buy you the AF400T.

These will give you manual flash with several settings of the power, and autoflash (not P-TTL), where the flash sets camera shutter speed and aperture, and decides the exposure.

In my view the loss of P-TTL is not a great deal.

With the Pentax flashes you don't have to worry about trigger voltage being too high.
I think the AF280 is a great little flash for the money. If you want some sort of protection in buying one, you might see if KEH has any. They are great to work with and always rate their items conservatively such that you get something just a little better than what you expect (in my experience).

I have the Sigma Super 500 DG P-TTL flash, and after re-chipping, it works fine on all of my Pentax DSLRs (DS, K100D, K10D). I have zero problems with it, and all functions work fine (HSS, auto-ISO, second curtain and so on).

I think some people maybe do not realize that some Sigma 500's need to be re-programmed to work correctly with the K10D.

Also, I always make sure to turn off the camera and flash, mount the flash, turn on the camera and then turn onthe flash to make sure that the camera and flash talk properly. This may not be necessary, but I have had no problems with the combination, so it cannot hurt.

Lastly, you might consider looking for a used Nikon SB-24, 25, 26, 28. They are very well built flashes that have an auto mode, lots of features and power and in auto or manual, and they work just fine on my Pentax bodies. You have to set the zoom manually and the ISO/F stop you want as well, and you lose HSS but that is true of almost any auto flash if you choose to go that way.

I have to second the statement that PTTL is not a great loss, IMO. HSS is useful and not having to set the ISO and aperture is nice, but the PTTL system is pretty inconsistent and I get lots of eye-blinkers when I use it due to the delay between the pre-flash and the main flash.

YMMV, of course.

Ray
12-18-2007, 04:52 PM   #26
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Are you sure about the 280T and the 400T?

QuoteOriginally posted by Ole Quote
As has been mentioned, you could consider an older Pentax flash.

The AF280T can be had for about $60. Twice that will buy you the AF400T.

These will give you manual flash with several settings of the power, and autoflash (not P-TTL), where the flash sets camera shutter speed and aperture, and decides the exposure.

In my view the loss of P-TTL is not a great deal.

With the Pentax flashes you don't have to worry about trigger voltage being too high.
I have both the 280T and the 400T as well as 3 of the older vivitar 285s. I know the 285s I have a trigger voltage of over 100 so I only use these now as remote fill flash. I have heard that the 280T and the 400T are border line safe to use, so I have not tried them on my K100D Super yet. The 400T model I have is the handle Pro flash and not the hot shoe version. The only way I have used the 280 or 400 with my camera so far is with a Wien safe flash adapter. It protects the camera from high voltage but it eliminates any dedicated features, so I have been setting everything manually. It would be great if I could use these two flashes with in the dedicated mode and make using them a little easier/faster.
12-18-2007, 06:27 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by RCDREAMS Quote
I have both the 280T and the 400T as well as 3 of the older vivitar 285s. I know the 285s I have a trigger voltage of over 100 so I only use these now as remote fill flash. I have heard that the 280T and the 400T are border line safe to use, so I have not tried them on my K100D Super yet. The 400T model I have is the handle Pro flash and not the hot shoe version. The only way I have used the 280 or 400 with my camera so far is with a Wien safe flash adapter. It protects the camera from high voltage but it eliminates any dedicated features, so I have been setting everything manually. It would be great if I could use these two flashes with in the dedicated mode and make using them a little easier/faster.
280T has a trigger voltage of 7.8..... 400t PROBABLY the same...BUT there both only TTL (and auto).

Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages
Where did you get the idea re: those 2 Pentax flashes? 285's have variable trigger voltages based mostly on where they were manufactured not when exactly...(ignoring modern versions of course).
"Older units have been reported as high as 600V!
Recent (post-'87) revised 283's ("Made in China") are safer with modern cameras, running around 9-10V. Bob Atkins reports some as low as 5V. Recently units marked "Made in Korea" have also appeared... measured at 8v by Andrew Cassino and Tony Bonanno.
Kevin Omura used a Quantum battery and got a hefty 261.4V out of his (sn3012330), while
Göran Samuelsson had two units with different voltages: 230V and 190V. Other reports have had similar variety, up to 270V

Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages



Pentax Germany once listed the safe voltage for Pentax at 30V. I can only assume you are going w/ 6V as "safe". BUT better safe then sorry though and the Wein are worthwile (I guess).
12-18-2007, 06:46 PM   #28
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Ok, i was just doing some reading into the 240T ( not particularly pretty , but if it works well and safely... )




this 280T unit seems to have both TTL AND AUTO AND MANUAL or am I mis interpreting the controls on the back?

So what IS the "SAFE" trigger voltage for a K10D specifically... Obviously the lower the better, but what is the optimum limit ?

Also someone else mentioned using NIKON auto flashes ... I wouldn't have thought they would even fit the hotshoe...
12-18-2007, 07:44 PM   #29
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280T Flash

QuoteOriginally posted by dresden_phoenix Quote
Ok, i was just doing some reading into the 240T ( not particularly pretty , but if it works well and safely... )




this 280T unit seems to have both TTL AND AUTO AND MANUAL or am I mis interpreting the controls on the back?

So what IS the "SAFE" trigger voltage for a K10D specifically... Obviously the lower the better, but what is the optimum limit ?

Also someone else mentioned using NIKON auto flashes ... I wouldn't have thought they would even fit the hotshoe...
The 280T was one of the first Pentax flash made to use the TTL flash control and only worked with the cameras that had the internal TTL sensor (like the Super Program with OTF -Off-the Film flash control). It's a pretty good medium power flash unit. It has TTL, 2 auto ranges, full manual setting, as well as a reduced power setting.
12-18-2007, 08:20 PM   #30
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but it should be able to work in "Auto" with a K10d too, right? ( even if I don't get the full p-ttl, which I have pretty much given up on, all I want is auto and manual, and it NOT FRYING my new camera)
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