I love my istDS but...

elho_cid · 11-15-2011, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by derelict

So, there will be no real gain in upgrading to a different body?

I do not have experience with K-x and K-r, but with K-5 this problem would definatly be solved. Maybe K-x of K-r also have this option, I don't know. But they have ugly pentamirror OVF, smaller than your DS has. I suggest you to get the K5 directly.

**pacerr** · 11-15-2011, 09:13 AM

One useful troubleshooting aid is to simply reset the camera to the Menu Default settings. That should clear most of the quirks and offer a repeatable standard for comparison of performance. Especially so if this is a "pre-owned" body that has been "customized" by someone else.

If restoring specific custom features (like use of the aperture ring) requires consulting the owner's manual, well . . . that certainly can't hurt either.

My *istDS is still a pleasure to use with an A 50/1.7 sort'a permanently attached.

H2

derelict · 11-15-2011, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by atupdate

If you are 100% manually focusing, you will not see the 11 auto focus points in the viewfinder.

A better question for you is Which upgrade has the write speed you want and a viewfinder as good or better than the DS. The DS has a Pentaprism, as does the K-5. The K-R has a Pentamirror (supposedly not as good for manual focus).

I am 100% manual focusing and shooting in either the Macro or M mode. Nothing else. Is the Pentaprism the grid like piece in the viewfinder? It is removable as I have taken it out to clean it so is there a possibility of swapping it if so?

Originally posted by elho_cid

I do not have experience with K-x and K-r, but with K-5 this problem would definatly be solved. Maybe K-x of K-r also have this option, I don't know. But they have ugly pentamirror OVF, smaller than your DS has. I suggest you to get the K5 directly.

Im going to have to do some first hand handling of the newer models like the K5 and Kr/x and compare them to the DS.

Originally posted by pacerr

One useful troubleshooting aid is to simply reset the camera to the Menu Default settings. That should clear most of the quirks and offer a repeatable standard for comparison of performance. Especially so if this is a "pre-owned" body that has been "customized" by someone else.

If restoring specific custom features (like use of the aperture ring) requires consulting the owner's manual, well . . . that certainly can't hurt either.

My *istDS is still a pleasure to use with an A 50/1.7 sort'a permanently attached.

Its been in the family since new. My mother bought it and used it for one soccer season and then parked it in favour of a Canon Sureshot that I had. I appropriated it and spent the next week cleaning the dust out of it and now I love it and use it often. I have a decent selection of lenses and am always on the look out for more. Dont get me wrong, the ist DS is a fantastic camera and serves 95% of my needs. The ability to do video would be great but its not that important. Anti shake would be fantastic, 6.1 MP is just fine as nothing I shoot will be blown up any larger than 8.5x11 but the saving/ write time and noticeable noise in the photos (low light) can get annoying.

As for the card Im using, I use 8GB SDHC Ultra.

**pixelsaurus** · 11-15-2011, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by elho_cid

So you probably do not complain about write time, but about DFS (dark frame subtraction) processing time. The long exposure noise reduction method. It can be switched off on some DSLR, such as K-5. Perhaps on others too, but I let those with more experience answer this.

In the Custom Setting Menu under Noise Reduction.

atupdate · 11-15-2011, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by derelict

I am 100% manual focusing and shooting in either the Macro or M mode. Nothing else. Is the Pentaprism the grid like piece in the viewfinder? It is removable as I have taken it out to clean it so is there a possibility of swapping it if so?

No, the Pentaprism is not removable. I believe you are talking about the focusing screen. There are focusing screens available that make manual focusing even easier when combined with the pentaprism.

This link will take you to a collection of thread links from the other Pentax Forum; with several dealing with the DS. I think you will find a lot of useful information there.

The Racehorse List

Tim

Marc Sabatella · 11-17-2011, 12:11 AM

Indeed, it sounds like the problem is not write time at all, but rather, the dark frame sbtraction, aka "noise reduction", that kicks in for slow shutter speeds. You can presumably turn it off via the custom menu, but you most likely won't like the results - the feature is there for a reason.

derelict · 11-17-2011, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by atupdate

No, the Pentaprism is not removable. I believe you are talking about the focusing screen. There are focusing screens available that make manual focusing even easier when combined with the pentaprism.

This link will take you to a collection of thread links from the other Pentax Forum; with several dealing with the DS. I think you will find a lot of useful information there.

The Racehorse List

Tim

Thanks for this database link. Im going to spend some time looking through it. I noticed the DS threads so Ill look through those.

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

Indeed, it sounds like the problem is not write time at all, but rather, the dark frame sbtraction, aka "noise reduction", that kicks in for slow shutter speeds. You can presumably turn it off via the custom menu, but you most likely won't like the results - the feature is there for a reason.

Do the newer cameras with better processors have a faster noise reduction? Also, is the built in noise reduction better than shooting with it off and then editing in LR3?

elho_cid · 11-17-2011, 02:54 AM

Originally posted by derelict

Do the newer cameras with better processors have a faster noise reduction? Also, is the built in noise reduction better than shooting with it off and then editing in LR3?

It is not matter of processor. The camera needs to take a long exposure of the dark frame to subtract it from the original image. That takes some time, usually equal to the exposure duration. Then the actual processing only takes miliseconds. And yes, it is better, but for example the image sensor in K-5 handles long exposures quite well even without it.

derelict · 11-17-2011, 12:39 PM

So, the K5 is way out of my price range so I am looking at possibly finding a good used body. Kr, Kx or K7?

Marc Sabatella · 11-17-2011, 08:25 PM

Why? Are you understanding that dark frame subtraction is something you can already turn off with your current camera, but might not be with a newer one? And that time to do DFS is dependent only on your shitte rspeed, not the processing power of your camera? I mean, upgrade if there is some *other* reason, but chaning cameras won't make DFS get faster, and with some cameras you won't be able to turn it off as I am pretty sure you can with your current camera. Also, as I said, you probably won't like the inages that result if you tur int off, and no, ordinary NR is not the same thing at all wpand won,t be nearly as effective. But there is software that can do DFS for you if you take a dark frame yourself.

twitch · 11-17-2011, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by derelict

So, the K5 is way out of my price range so I am looking at possibly finding a good used body. Kr, Kx or K7?

Of those I think the K-x is the best 2nd hand deal. But the comments about DFS stand, none of these bodies solve your problem of DFS.

derelict · 11-18-2011, 02:24 AM

I know it wont solve the DFS issue BUT it will net me video, anti shake and high pixel count (which is on the lesser side of important).

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11-15-2011, 09:06 AM	#16
elho_cid Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Prague Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by derelict So, there will be no real gain in upgrading to a different body? I do not have experience with K-x and K-r, but with K-5 this problem would definatly be solved. Maybe K-x of K-r also have this option, I don't know. But they have ugly pentamirror OVF, smaller than your DS has. I suggest you to get the K5 directly.

11-15-2011, 09:13 AM	#17
pacerr Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Paris, TN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,350	One useful troubleshooting aid is to simply reset the camera to the Menu Default settings. That should clear most of the quirks and offer a repeatable standard for comparison of performance. Especially so if this is a "pre-owned" body that has been "customized" by someone else. If restoring specific custom features (like use of the aperture ring) requires consulting the owner's manual, well . . . that certainly can't hurt either. My *istDS is still a pleasure to use with an A 50/1.7 sort'a permanently attached. H2

11-15-2011, 03:24 PM	#18
derelict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: NoVa Posts: 525 Original Poster	Originally posted by atupdate If you are 100% manually focusing, you will not see the 11 auto focus points in the viewfinder. A better question for you is Which upgrade has the write speed you want and a viewfinder as good or better than the DS. The DS has a Pentaprism, as does the K-5. The K-R has a Pentamirror (supposedly not as good for manual focus). I am 100% manual focusing and shooting in either the Macro or M mode. Nothing else. Is the Pentaprism the grid like piece in the viewfinder? It is removable as I have taken it out to clean it so is there a possibility of swapping it if so? Originally posted by elho_cid I do not have experience with K-x and K-r, but with K-5 this problem would definatly be solved. Maybe K-x of K-r also have this option, I don't know. But they have ugly pentamirror OVF, smaller than your DS has. I suggest you to get the K5 directly. Im going to have to do some first hand handling of the newer models like the K5 and Kr/x and compare them to the DS. Originally posted by pacerr One useful troubleshooting aid is to simply reset the camera to the Menu Default settings. That should clear most of the quirks and offer a repeatable standard for comparison of performance. Especially so if this is a "pre-owned" body that has been "customized" by someone else. If restoring specific custom features (like use of the aperture ring) requires consulting the owner's manual, well . . . that certainly can't hurt either. My *istDS is still a pleasure to use with an A 50/1.7 sort'a permanently attached. Its been in the family since new. My mother bought it and used it for one soccer season and then parked it in favour of a Canon Sureshot that I had. I appropriated it and spent the next week cleaning the dust out of it and now I love it and use it often. I have a decent selection of lenses and am always on the look out for more. Dont get me wrong, the ist DS is a fantastic camera and serves 95% of my needs. The ability to do video would be great but its not that important. Anti shake would be fantastic, 6.1 MP is just fine as nothing I shoot will be blown up any larger than 8.5x11 but the saving/ write time and noticeable noise in the photos (low light) can get annoying. As for the card Im using, I use 8GB SDHC Ultra.

11-15-2011, 04:07 PM	#19
pixelsaurus Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Te Kuiti, NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 986	Originally posted by elho_cid So you probably do not complain about write time, but about DFS (dark frame subtraction) processing time. The long exposure noise reduction method. It can be switched off on some DSLR, such as K-5. Perhaps on others too, but I let those with more experience answer this. In the Custom Setting Menu under Noise Reduction.

11-15-2011, 05:23 PM	#20
atupdate Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dayton, OH Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,724	Originally posted by derelict I am 100% manual focusing and shooting in either the Macro or M mode. Nothing else. Is the Pentaprism the grid like piece in the viewfinder? It is removable as I have taken it out to clean it so is there a possibility of swapping it if so? No, the Pentaprism is not removable. I believe you are talking about the focusing screen. There are focusing screens available that make manual focusing even easier when combined with the pentaprism. This link will take you to a collection of thread links from the other Pentax Forum; with several dealing with the DS. I think you will find a lot of useful information there. The Racehorse List Tim

11-17-2011, 12:11 AM	#21
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Indeed, it sounds like the problem is not write time at all, but rather, the dark frame sbtraction, aka "noise reduction", that kicks in for slow shutter speeds. You can presumably turn it off via the custom menu, but you most likely won't like the results - the feature is there for a reason.

11-17-2011, 02:34 AM	#22
derelict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: NoVa Posts: 525 Original Poster	Originally posted by atupdate No, the Pentaprism is not removable. I believe you are talking about the focusing screen. There are focusing screens available that make manual focusing even easier when combined with the pentaprism. This link will take you to a collection of thread links from the other Pentax Forum; with several dealing with the DS. I think you will find a lot of useful information there. The Racehorse List Tim Thanks for this database link. Im going to spend some time looking through it. I noticed the DS threads so Ill look through those. Originally posted by Marc Sabatella Indeed, it sounds like the problem is not write time at all, but rather, the dark frame sbtraction, aka "noise reduction", that kicks in for slow shutter speeds. You can presumably turn it off via the custom menu, but you most likely won't like the results - the feature is there for a reason. Do the newer cameras with better processors have a faster noise reduction? Also, is the built in noise reduction better than shooting with it off and then editing in LR3?

11-17-2011, 02:54 AM	#23
elho_cid Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Prague Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by derelict Do the newer cameras with better processors have a faster noise reduction? Also, is the built in noise reduction better than shooting with it off and then editing in LR3? It is not matter of processor. The camera needs to take a long exposure of the dark frame to subtract it from the original image. That takes some time, usually equal to the exposure duration. Then the actual processing only takes miliseconds. And yes, it is better, but for example the image sensor in K-5 handles long exposures quite well even without it.

11-17-2011, 12:39 PM	#24
derelict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: NoVa Posts: 525 Original Poster	So, the K5 is way out of my price range so I am looking at possibly finding a good used body. Kr, Kx or K7?

11-17-2011, 08:25 PM	#25
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Why? Are you understanding that dark frame subtraction is something you can already turn off with your current camera, but might not be with a newer one? And that time to do DFS is dependent only on your shitte rspeed, not the processing power of your camera? I mean, upgrade if there is some other reason, but chaning cameras won't make DFS get faster, and with some cameras you won't be able to turn it off as I am pretty sure you can with your current camera. Also, as I said, you probably won't like the inages that result if you tur int off, and no, ordinary NR is not the same thing at all wpand won,t be nearly as effective. But there is software that can do DFS for you if you take a dark frame yourself.

11-17-2011, 09:41 PM	#26
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Originally posted by derelict So, the K5 is way out of my price range so I am looking at possibly finding a good used body. Kr, Kx or K7? Of those I think the K-x is the best 2nd hand deal. But the comments about DFS stand, none of these bodies solve your problem of DFS.

11-18-2011, 02:24 AM	#27
derelict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: NoVa Posts: 525 Original Poster	I know it wont solve the DFS issue BUT it will net me video, anti shake and high pixel count (which is on the lesser side of important).