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12-15-2007, 09:27 PM   #1
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K10D or 40D or Wait?

Hello,

I'm finally able to upgrade from a point-n-shoot camera to a DSLR. My passion is taking outdoor and wildlife photos. I've been narrowing down my options to the K10D and the EOS 40D.

I love the fact that the K10D has a weather-resistant body, this feature really caught my eye. I also the weather resistant lens that Pentax has released, the DA* series. These two features are really making me consider the K10D and the DA* lens. What is causing me some hesitation in the decisions process is that I can't find and reviews on the lens, I'd figure they would be out there since the lens came out in February I believe. How are these lens? Do they produce good images? Are they just as tough as the k10D body?

Also, reading through the reviews I have found for the K10D, many have said that the the K10D produces images that are warm and also doesn't produce images with not so defined borders. I have heard that adjusting the photos in Photoshop will solve this issue, or tweaking the sharpness in the camera itself. What I really want is a camera that takes very good photos w/o the need for editing the photos.

I've been playing with the 40D too. I have read only raving review on this camera. The 40D produces great photos in both JPEG and RAW w/o the need to edit them in Photoshop. The camera feels very solid in my hands like the K10D. It does have a larger screen with Liveview, more MP,nad has a higher FPS (for those wildlife action images). They say it has "improves weather resistant seals", but I'm sure it doesn't compare to the k10D seals.

I feel that the k10D is a great camera, but what is really stopping me is that I fell that the DSLR market is making an evolution to the next level of technology and that the K10D is the previous level (much like the change from 32-bit to 64-bit computer chips). The DSLR camera that I do pick will be my camera for the next 3-5 year. I don't want to look back in 3 months and think that I made a poor choice in technology and that my camera is so very out dated. Also not finding many reviews on the DA* lens is really make me hesitant to get the K10D, what's the since in getting a weather resistant body when the DA* lens are not that good???

Any help regarding my issue will help me in the decision process. Thanks.

12-15-2007, 09:37 PM   #2
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The 40D is kinda like a catch up model to the K10 spec for spec, FPS aside. There will be an announcement in under a month from Pentax about the next "Evolution". Downside is announcements and release dates usually have a long lull in between, still it would be nice to hold off your decision just to see whats on the horizon before commiting to one or the other.
12-15-2007, 10:22 PM   #3
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One thing that was mentioned to me when making the decision for my first DSLR was, you are buying into a lens system, not a body. Bodies will constantly change, but you will most likely stick with the same lenses through those changes. Otherwise, it's far too costly to be changing systems everytime a new body is released. So you try to find the company that offers the balance of what you want with regard to lenses and that seems to consistently offer decent bodies to go with them.

One cross factor right now though, between lenses and bodies, is when dealing with IS (or SR. Or Vr. Or OS). With Canon and Nikon (and Fuji and Sigma), you need to buy it in each lens (and it's not available on all of them). With the rest, it's in the body which means any lens you put on it has it.
12-15-2007, 11:23 PM   #4
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I forgot to mention that in my original post about the IS built into the camera, that is a feature that I really like. I did have my mind set on the K10D, but b/c of the few reviews on the DA* lens ( in my mind, why get a body that is weather resistant when the lens that ARE weather resistant really are not that good?) and the need to do editing to EVERY photo to make them look good..... so what I want ot know, are the DA* lens good and really, how is the image quality (relating to outdoor landscapes and wildlife)?

12-15-2007, 11:42 PM   #5
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There are any number of samples from the lenses here. Just do a search and they'll turn up. From what little I've actually read, the 50-135 really seems to be tops. As far as getting nice shots out of the K10D without using PS, it's easily possible, it just doesn't do it at default settings. Obviously converting from RAW gives you the best results, but the camera is capable of doing it all on it's own.
12-15-2007, 11:43 PM   #6
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hmmmm, i have heard a LOT of good things about the DA* lenses, they're just a bit too pricey for my pocketbook.
12-15-2007, 11:55 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stratman Quote
hmmmm, i have heard a LOT of good things about the DA* lenses, they're just a bit too pricey for my pocketbook.
I liked the idea of having a TOTALLY weather-resistant camera, body & lens. I live in the North Western part of the country where it is damp 8-months of the year.... so when I heard about the weather-resistant body.... and then the DA* lens, to me it would be a perfect match for me, for what I do and where I live. I will have to try and find the sample shots done with at lens.
12-16-2007, 12:02 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by geek42 Quote
I forgot to mention that in my original post about the IS built into the camera, that is a feature that I really like. I did have my mind set on the K10D, but b/c of the few reviews on the DA* lens ( in my mind, why get a body that is weather resistant when the lens that ARE weather resistant really are not that good?) and the need to do editing to EVERY photo to make them look good..... so what I want ot know, are the DA* lens good and really, how is the image quality (relating to outdoor landscapes and wildlife)?
I can vouch for the excellent performance (e.g., sports, landscape and night-time scenic) of the DA* 50-135. It has spent a great deal of time on the front of the K10D since late August. I still continue to be pleased with the results I obtain with many other non-DA* lenses that I own.

Basic knowledge of photography and experience will go a long way toward preventing the "need to [edit] EVERY photo to make [it] look good."

Post-processing is a fact of life (workflow) just as developing was required for film; cropping, burning and dodging and other techniques were used to produce the desired result. When it comes to post processing, you may choose to simply batch your images to slightly enhance (i.e., convert to B&W). You could expend hours of effort to attempt to correct mistakes or manipulate each file to create *altered art*. I am not a post-processing addict; images are captured in RAW and developed in Lightroom very much as if I were processing film and printing the old-fashioned way. The amount of time your style will require is up to you.

GL in reaching a decision.

12-16-2007, 12:16 AM   #9
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"Also, reading through the reviews I have found for the K10D, many have said that the the K10D produces images that are warm and also doesn't produce images with not so defined borders. I have heard that adjusting the photos in Photoshop will solve this issue, or tweaking the sharpness in the camera itself. What I really want is a camera that takes very good photos w/o the need for editing the photos"

Mate, I don't want to spoil your dream, but please, please be aware that YOU, not the camera, take the photos.....good or bad. It will be you who decides on the composition, the light, the camera settings etc etc.

If you are truly after a fully automatic point and shoot type camera then go with the 'pro-sumer" type camera with a super zoom, you will be much happier.
12-16-2007, 12:22 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by geek42 Quote
I forgot to mention that in my original post about the IS built into the camera, that is a feature that I really like. I did have my mind set on the K10D, but b/c of the few reviews on the DA* lens ( in my mind, why get a body that is weather resistant when the lens that ARE weather resistant really are not that good?) and the need to do editing to EVERY photo to make them look good..... so what I want ot know, are the DA* lens good and really, how is the image quality (relating to outdoor landscapes and wildlife)?
Don't sweat the quality of the DA* lenses. Some of the early 16-50 lenses seem to have had a problem back focusing. Here is a 100% crop from a worst case scenario. ISO 1600, hand held (with shake reduction), 1/20 @ f/2.8, AE, AF. The crop is from the center left of the frame. Capture was RAW.DNG. Exported from lightroom with WB adjustment and exposure twea, only.

<Edit> This was taken at 16 mm focal length.



And the original

Last edited by Canada_Rockies; 12-16-2007 at 10:08 AM. Reason: Left out that it was shot at 16 mm focal length
12-16-2007, 12:28 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by GWP Quote
"Also, reading through the reviews I have found for the K10D, many have said that the the K10D produces images that are warm and also doesn't produce images with not so defined borders. I have heard that adjusting the photos in Photoshop will solve this issue, or tweaking the sharpness in the camera itself. What I really want is a camera that takes very good photos w/o the need for editing the photos"

Mate, I don't want to spoil your dream, but please, please be aware that YOU, not the camera, take the photos.....good or bad. It will be you who decides on the composition, the light, the camera settings etc etc.

If you are truly after a fully automatic point and shoot type camera then go with the 'pro-sumer" type camera with a super zoom, you will be much happier.
I do understand that I take the pictures and its not the CAMERA that takes them, I've been in photography for years as a hobby and understand that. I just don't want to spend hours, running my photos through an editing program to make them all look good. I do understand that some photos will need to be edited to adjust the levels to make them look the way that I want. I'm not looking for a point and shoot camera, I want DECENT DSLR that will produce DECENT images w/o the need to edit all the time.
12-16-2007, 12:34 AM   #12
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Slide show

*Warning* Full size images.

Those may not be the best examples, but I think they are decent enough. All straight from the camera .jpgs with the Sigma 70-300 APO, all at 300mm wide open at f/5.6, which should be that lenses worst settings for shooting.

*EDIT* Just wanted to add, I'm far from a decent photographer and these are all shot from with in the first two months of owning the camera, which is my first DSLR.
12-16-2007, 04:59 AM   #13
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You are asking on a Pentax forum...of course you are mostly going to get recommendations for the Pentax.

I own both the Canon 20D and a Pentax K10D. Now my passion is also outdoor and wildlife photography, and for that, I mostly go with my 20D for several reasons.

1. It does have faster autofocus with better predictive algorithms. In other words, it is far easier to get birds in flight and shoot a stream of them if need be. Canon does beat Pentax on this regard, and to my eyes, is the only major detraction that Pentax has over a Canon camera. Mind you, if you only had a Pentax system, you probably wouldn't notice this as much.
2. It does have 5 fps shooting capabilities. You can machine gun a bird in flight and with the better AF, your going to get quite a few keepers. The 40D is even faster by a frame more.
3. More long glass availability. I hate to say this, but there is nothing over 300mm in the present and future pentax lens roadmap. Yes, you can get a few Pentax mount long lenses from third party manufactures, however, they are limited in model selection.

Now, the Pentax is weather sealed, and so are the star lenses. Unfortunately, they only have 2 out right now, and one maxes out at 135mm, not nearly far enough for most things wildlife. There will be a 300mm star prime released sometime in the future, but for birds, that is way too small. Pentax needs to get something in the 500mm range. There is always the Bigma in a Pentax mount though. Problem is, once you mount this lens, your not weather sealed at the lens mount. Likewise for any discontinued big Pentax glass you may be lucky to find out there. But then again, your still protected better then with the Canon 40D by a large margin.

The Canon 40D cannot be said that it is weather sealed. A few measly foam gaskets here and there is paltry compared to the Pentax. It is a joke really. It costs a lot more then a Pentax K10D to boot.

You will find that whichever system you get into, there is always compromise on features sets and price.

I personally like my Pentax for fit and finish over the Canon. Pentax lenses are really good and usually found at a cheaper price then Canon ones. In fact, the 50-200mm Pentax has extra low dispersion glass for 199 Canadian. Try and find a Canon equivalent in their lineup that takes as good a photo for that price. Likewise, the photos I get out of my 16-45mm f/4 Pentax are just as nice as the ones I get out of my 17-40mm Canon f/4L lens, for half the price! I won't even mention how much more expensive IS is on the Canon system.

Either system you can't go wrong with (they both have their strengths and weaknesses). With Pentax, you can get more for less then you can with a Canon system (wide to mid telephoto range). With a Canon system, you get maximum versatility with glass. You can even get a Pentax star lens made for your mount by Tokina (Tokina makes several Pentax lens formulas for Nikon and Pentax mounts without SMC I do believe).
12-16-2007, 08:16 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
Don't sweat the quality of the DA* lenses. Some of the early 16-50 lenses seem to have had a problem back focusing. Here is a 100% crop from a worst case scenario. ISO 1600, hand held (with shake reduction), 1/20 @ f/2.8, AE, AF.
at 1/20 of a second on a close up shot, are you sure it is back focused, or did yoou move front to back.

Although shake reduction is good it is only essentually working in 2 axis, you are responsible to maintian the third.
12-16-2007, 08:59 AM   #15
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I didn't take that as saying that particular shot was backfocused, just that some of the lenses have that problem, and then proceeded to offer a shot at what would be considered settings that would most likely give anyone a poor shot.
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