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11-12-2011, 11:16 AM   #1
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OK, the FF big question to ask yourself

Most of us agree that a FF Pentax would be a good addition to the DSLR line up.
But ask yourself this.... how much are you willing to spend to get one?
Remember with the amount of sales Pentax could generate will be no where near that of the other big "2" so a FF Pentax will likely be expensive.
So how much?
I am going to venture a guess and say it will be around the 3,000-3500 range.
Remember one thing, you can buy a FF other brand like this http://www.henrys.com/23776-CANON-EOS-5D-MK-II-DIGITAL-SLR-BODY.aspx
It would be hard to sell a higher priced camera (to non pentax fans) for a much higher price

Where is your price ceiling?

all opinions welcome, all of the about are just opinions of course

cheers


Last edited by slip; 11-12-2011 at 02:54 PM.
11-12-2011, 11:29 AM   #2
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Anything "reasonable" for a camera that I have to pay for myself- so I'd say $3k tops. I would get a canon 1dx or a d3x, as they're REALLY nice cameras, but it's just not worth spending money on unless the investment ends up paying for itself.

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11-12-2011, 11:36 AM   #3
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Make it a right deal and half of the $ 3K can be covered by selling obsolete aps-c ltd lenses . But no ff anytime soon i suppose.
11-12-2011, 11:46 AM   #4
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Pentax badly needs something between the K-5 and the 645D if you ask me- I mean as nice as the 645D is, it's only good for a small number of applications.


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11-12-2011, 12:08 PM   #5
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The following comment is totally untainted by actual information:

IMHO a Pentax FF camera just won't happen, because the FF market is very small and select. I'm not just speculating -- many more makers build MF cams than FF cams. If FF were a viable market, scads of greedy capitalist entrepreneurs would fall over themselves offering us goods. Where are they? As good old Deep Throat said, follow the money.

I think a FF Ricoh GXR PK mountor is much more likely. Compartmentalize the infrastructure -- a body for various mountors, separate from the rapidly-evolving sensor and circuitry. This approach could make for a much more affordable FF platform, than would an FF body in direct competition with Canikonyca.

I won't re-hash the arguments. I'll just point out that multiple-format mountors (for sensors from ~1/2.33in (Q) to 645) would cost less to design and produce than standalone cameras, and would showcase the GXR as the ultimate in upgrade-path devices.

ObTopic: As a Mayan vendor in Antigua Guatemala asked me as I dithered over some crafts, HOW MUCH YOU WANNA PAY? I see the GXR body selling for US$350, the M-mountor for US$650 -- would you go to US$1650 for a FF-PK-mountor, for US$2k total? Would you go higher? That was the base price of the Sony A850, the low-cost leader. Is that a tolerable price?

Last edited by RioRico; 11-12-2011 at 12:17 PM.
11-12-2011, 12:35 PM   #6
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when you see the 60D and 5D2, they have almost the same size.
The K5 magnesium outfit can be perfect for a FF sensor.

i think the FF market is small because the price of it is high.
If Pentax would do a cheap FF (no video ?) as a first entry, for around 2,000$, Pentax would have a good progression in the DSLR line : K-r / K5 / "K?" // 600$ / 1300$ / 2000$.

Plus, a lot of the "inside" of the FF can be shared with all other line like electronics (a new PRIME ENGINE ?).

the fact that FF are that expensive are no more because of the cost of production IMHO.

I would pay 2,000€/2,750$ max. More is not justified if it is "a K5 FF"
11-12-2011, 12:42 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
i think the FF market is small because the price of it is high.
If Pentax would do a cheap FF (no video ?) as a first entry, for around 2,000$, Pentax would have a good progression in the DSLR line : K-r / K5 / "K?" // 600$ / 1300$ / 2000$.
The cost of a FF will always be higher than the cost of a APS-C. FF sensors simply can not be manufactured in a cost effective manner with current technology.

QuoteQuote:
Production costs for a full-frame sensor can exceed twenty times the costs for an APS-C sensor. Only 20 full-frame sensors will fit on an 8-inch (200 mm) silicon wafer, and yield is comparatively low because the sensor's large area makes it very vulnerable to contaminants—20 evenly distributed defects could theoretically ruin an entire wafer. Additionally, the full-frame sensor requires three separate exposures during the photolithography stage, tripling the number of masks and exposure processes.
Here is a guy predicting that the future of digital cameras is FF, in 2004.

The Future of Digital - Full Frame of APS-C? - photo.net

QuoteQuote:
I think it's clear that in a few years, a full frame camera under $2000 is certainly possible, even likely. Things move much faster than many people expect. Remember that only 9 years ago you'd have had to pay $20,000 for a 1.3MP DSLR with a 16mm x 20mm sensor (EOS DCS 3). Even just 4 years ago a 3MP DSLR (APS-C) was selling for $3000 (EOS D30). Today you can buy a 6.3MP APS-C camera for $800 (actually $500 with the current Canon Rebates!)
Another nugget.

QuoteQuote:
Won't the number of APS-C coverage lenses out there keep the APS-C format in production?

Well, there are millions of Pentax Screw mount lenses out there and nobody makes a camera body that uses them.

Last edited by boriscleto; 11-12-2011 at 12:52 PM.
11-12-2011, 12:45 PM   #8
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As a corollary, I really wonder how many of us are professionals who can justify $3K or more as a business expense, or, in fact, most of truly intermediate amateurs who just want a camera that is dependable, high resolution, and moderately priced. I'm sure that the 645D is a marvelous device, but when it's all said and done it is an electronic device, and as such as a finite life-span. How many times can you make that investment; how often. In todays economy, high ticket items are cause for thought for most people, and I question how many cameras you can expect to sell in that price range. How many professionals have you seen shooting Pentaxs lately; they're almost always Canikons.......

I would love 20-25 MP, high ISO, all those things, but know perfectly well that I most probably not make that sort of investment.

Of course, if I were to win the Lottery, all bets are off!!

11-12-2011, 02:01 PM - 1 Like   #9
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I don't want FF: I want a 645D (and a pony).
11-12-2011, 02:01 PM   #10
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Not. Penny more
11-12-2011, 02:07 PM   #11
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@ boriscleto : today, big company of semiconductor do 300mm wafer, and the "fail rate" is around less than 10%.

So i don't think the sensor is really that much more expensive than APS-C. Certainly not 20 time the price of APS-C.

the 5D2 was release 3 years ago and the 5D is almost 7 years old. Still, they are great camera and buy/sell easily on second hand market. It's an investment to buy such a camera. No doubt if i get one, i'll keep it until it die.
11-12-2011, 02:38 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
@ boriscleto : today, big company of semiconductor do 300mm wafer, and the "fail rate" is around less than 10%.

So i don't think the sensor is really that much more expensive than APS-C. Certainly not 20 time the price of APS-C.
You can fit about 70 FF sensors on a 300mm wafer. You can fit 180-200 APS-C sensors on a 300mm wafer.

I came across an article from 11 months ago that Sony was investing $1.2 billion to double it's production capacity from 25,000 wafers per month to 50,000 wafers per month. In calculating this capacity it converts the total of amount of 200mm production to 300mm production basis. The goal was to reach this production amount by March 2012, I'm sure the earthquake had an effect on this.

Last edited by boriscleto; 11-12-2011 at 02:47 PM.
11-12-2011, 03:57 PM   #13
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$3500 usd
11-12-2011, 04:47 PM   #14
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USD$1000 or less, 2nd hand a few years after release
11-12-2011, 04:55 PM   #15
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<3000USD for me.
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