What causes the whirring noise in LiveView?

Wheatfield · 11-22-2011, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

While this thread does not provide an answer, it sure does provide fundamental insights into the relationship of people and knowledge.

I'll keep your crappy excuse for a thanks for trying in mind the next time you ask for help.

TOUGEFC · 11-22-2011, 11:12 PM

Its the SR
Why is the K20D silent whilst the K-7 makes noise? They use different SR.

Why can I still hear it even when the SR is turned off? Because its still actually on , holding the floating sensor still

Laurentiu Cristofor · 11-22-2011, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by v5planet

It offers a clear answer to your first question and educated speculation as to the answer of the second. There is no need to be sour or condescending.

Originally posted by pentup

And into pomposity and ingratitude.

No guys, it is just frustration that when people don't know an answer they feel the need to make up one. I didn't ask for speculation, I asked if anyone knows the answer to a question. And knowing an answer is not the same as thinking you know the answer, trying to guess it, or coming up with one. Yes, it's amusing to keep a thread alive with speculation, but it's not what I was asking for.

And there was no answer to my question on what causes the noise in recent cameras (I asked a single question btw, not two - I just had to repeat it because it wasn't understood). There is just speculation that it is caused by SR. But why would SR be noisy in just this particular scenario is not explained by the speculation. Why would SR be silent in all other use scenarios, but start acting just during Live View? SR is certainly capable to be active for longer periods of time without making noise, so SR cannot be the answer. It can be part of the answer, but not a full answer.

Here are some facts:
- SR can be active without the noise being present - this suggests it's not just SR
- The noise does appear in scenarios where the mirror is being held up - this suggests the noise might be from some motor holding the mirror up

Why the K20D does not have the noise is what I'd like to understand. It could be that my friend had a sample with a silent motor - I'll have to ask him to check if he gets any noise if he raises the mirror up for the cleaning procedure - or it could just be that Pentax used a silent motor just in the K20D - this phrase is of course entering the realm of speculation.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 11-22-2011, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I'll keep your crappy excuse for a thanks for trying in mind the next time you ask for help.

Thanks!

Laurentiu Cristofor · 11-22-2011, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by TOUGEFC

Why can I still hear it even when the SR is turned off? Because its still actually on , holding the floating sensor still

Yes, but now try explaining why you cannot hear it when SR is on and active.

TOUGEFC · 11-23-2011, 12:00 AM

Everytime my mirror goes up, I can hear it, SR on or off.

Wheatfield · 11-23-2011, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

Yes, but now try explaining why you cannot hear it when SR is on and active.

Perhaps it's your bad hearing.
Really, why are you asking a question that would best be answered by a camera designer on an internet forum and then getting pissy because you are getting laymans answers?

Last edited by Wheatfield; 11-23-2011 at 03:33 PM.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 11-24-2011, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Perhaps it's your bad hearing.
Really, why are you asking a question that would best be answered by a camera designer on an internet forum and then getting pissy because you are getting laymans answers?

Just because you cannot help, it doesn't mean that there aren't other users that could.

Even if no one has the answer, I can still get useful information such as people confirming that their K20D doesn't make any noise or finding users whose K20D actually does make a noise.

If you know a better forum where Pentax engineers congregate to answer customer questions, please let me know what it is. Even if you don't want to help me anymore, you can still benefit other users by sharing such information. Is it such an out of place gesture to ask a question about Pentax cameras in the "Pentax DSLR Discussion" part of the leading Pentax discussion site on the planet?

Also, I am not "pissy". Although I would have all rights to be, if I decided to be so. I didn't make personal remarks about any of the posters that replied on this thread, I only commented about not getting an answer and about people presenting their speculations as truth. And for this I got back replies calling me sour, condescending, pompous, ingrate, and now "pissy". Interesting assortment of "educated" answers. Not surprising, just matter of fact stuff. Happens all the time. Excuse me for not being appreciative ... and for being a bit sarcastic in return.

sterretje · 11-24-2011, 11:29 PM

Some (partially) plausible explanations.

Something generates a sound of a certain frequency in the camera; the volume is low and you can't actually hear it. However the camera is a resonation chamber that will amplify certain frequencies (resonance frequency as well as harmonics (multiples of the resonance frequency)). Volume of the chamber as well as materials will define the exact resonance frequency. If the frequency of the generated sound matches the resonance frequency of the chamber, the sound will be amplified to a level that is audible.

Live view versus normal use will change the volume of the chamber because the mirror is up (or not) and hence a different resonance frequency.
K20D versus K5 will also be a different resonance chamber and hence a different resonance frequency.

I agree with the others that it is the SR as it's the only part in the camera that is actually active all the time. But don't ask me how the sound is actually generated.
SR enabled versus SR disabled might or might not change the frequency of the generated sound; it depends on the symptoms that you get

Kunzite · 11-25-2011, 04:37 AM

IIRC, my K20D was "noisy" in LiveView. I could barely hear it, though.

Gimbal · 11-25-2011, 04:59 AM

It's the SR mechanism. And as far as I know all Pentax cameras with SR is sometimes silent and sometimes audible. So the K20 isn't always silent, and the K7 isn't always audible.

Focal length affects the SR (when SR is activated) and the sound emitted. Different play in the mechanism can cause different cameras to be more or less audible.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 12-03-2011, 12:54 PM

The difference I noticed was striking, not at all a matter of "now you hear it, now you don't". My friend and I have both been away last week but I'll check with him to see if his camera is also silent when the mirror is lifted up for cleaning.

SR makes no noise during regular use, so why would it make noise during LiveView? You can just press the shutter half way to activate the SR indicator in the viewfinder and listen to the camera while keeping SR activated - it's completely silent. Go into LiveView and you suddenly have the same noise that the camera makes when you lift the mirror up.

The noise the camera makes was the main reason I didn't warm up to the LiveView feature and I used it only sparingly - I always felt the camera is making some effort to sustain the feature and it may break at any point - I just didn't feel comfortable using it like that. So, obviously, I've been surprised to find that an older model that supposedly had an inferior implementation of LiveView, actually worked better.

Gimbal · 12-04-2011, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

SR makes no noise during regular use, so why would it make noise during LiveView? You can just press the shutter half way to activate the SR indicator in the viewfinder and listen to the camera while keeping SR activated - it's completely silent. Go into LiveView and you suddenly have the same noise that the camera makes when you lift the mirror up.

That's because the servo motors that lift/control the sensor plate (and cause the noise) isn't engaged (even though the SR icon is lit) until they are actually needed. And they are not needed when the shutter is closed. But when the shutter is open, they are engaged, even if SR is off, thus the sound can be heard during long exposures, video, live view or sensor cleaning.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 12-04-2011, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by Gimbal

That's because the servo motors that lift/control the sensor plate (and cause the noise) isn't engaged (even though the SR icon is lit) until they are actually needed. And they are not needed when the shutter is closed. But when the shutter is open, they are engaged, even if SR is off, thus the sound can be heard during long exposures, video, live view or sensor cleaning.

Interesting - so what is the SR icon indicating then? That the system thinks it got the vibration rhythm and can keep up with it?

I just checked with my friend and with the lens removed from the body, he can hear a very slight sound when using LV or lifting the mirror up - the sound is hard to hear with a lens mounted on, unlike with the newer cameras. Strange that the K-7 lost whatever sound dampening the K20D had. I am wondering how the K-5 is - does it make the same sound as K-7/K-x or is it more silent in LV?

**ChipB** · 12-04-2011, 06:56 PM

I have both a K20D and a K-x - both sound the same in live view - some sort of "whirring" noise. Never noticed it before, but then I've never put my ear up to the camera before!!

And FWIW, both cameras sounded 'bout the same with SR off and in manual focus mode.

11-25-2011, 04:37 AM	#25
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	IIRC, my K20D was "noisy" in LiveView. I could barely hear it, though. Last edited by Kunzite; 11-25-2011 at 04:44 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
K-x LiveView: Is there a way to keep the mirror up?	RolloR	Pentax DSLR Discussion	2	06-06-2010 09:23 AM
Pentax K-x Audible Noise in LiveView	omardalian	Pentax DSLR Discussion	14	06-03-2010 11:45 AM
KX Liveview Question	Ira	Pentax DSLR Discussion	4	02-17-2010 11:21 AM
Liveview audible noise	MM#8	Pentax DSLR Discussion	7	08-24-2009 08:52 PM
Is the whirring sound from SR louder on some cameras?	Aegon	Pentax DSLR Discussion	10	09-07-2008 04:52 PM

11-22-2011, 11:04 PM	#16
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor While this thread does not provide an answer, it sure does provide fundamental insights into the relationship of people and knowledge. I'll keep your crappy excuse for a thanks for trying in mind the next time you ask for help.

11-22-2011, 11:12 PM	#17
TOUGEFC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,561	Its the SR Why is the K20D silent whilst the K-7 makes noise? They use different SR. Why can I still hear it even when the SR is turned off? Because its still actually on , holding the floating sensor still

11-22-2011, 11:41 PM	#18
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055 Original Poster	Originally posted by v5planet It offers a clear answer to your first question and educated speculation as to the answer of the second. There is no need to be sour or condescending. Originally posted by pentup And into pomposity and ingratitude. No guys, it is just frustration that when people don't know an answer they feel the need to make up one. I didn't ask for speculation, I asked if anyone knows the answer to a question. And knowing an answer is not the same as thinking you know the answer, trying to guess it, or coming up with one. Yes, it's amusing to keep a thread alive with speculation, but it's not what I was asking for. And there was no answer to my question on what causes the noise in recent cameras (I asked a single question btw, not two - I just had to repeat it because it wasn't understood). There is just speculation that it is caused by SR. But why would SR be noisy in just this particular scenario is not explained by the speculation. Why would SR be silent in all other use scenarios, but start acting just during Live View? SR is certainly capable to be active for longer periods of time without making noise, so SR cannot be the answer. It can be part of the answer, but not a full answer. Here are some facts: - SR can be active without the noise being present - this suggests it's not just SR - The noise does appear in scenarios where the mirror is being held up - this suggests the noise might be from some motor holding the mirror up Why the K20D does not have the noise is what I'd like to understand. It could be that my friend had a sample with a silent motor - I'll have to ask him to check if he gets any noise if he raises the mirror up for the cleaning procedure - or it could just be that Pentax used a silent motor just in the K20D - this phrase is of course entering the realm of speculation.

11-22-2011, 11:42 PM	#19
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055 Original Poster	Originally posted by Wheatfield I'll keep your crappy excuse for a thanks for trying in mind the next time you ask for help. Thanks!

11-22-2011, 11:45 PM	#20
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055 Original Poster	Originally posted by TOUGEFC Why can I still hear it even when the SR is turned off? Because its still actually on , holding the floating sensor still Yes, but now try explaining why you cannot hear it when SR is on and active.

11-23-2011, 12:00 AM	#21
TOUGEFC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,561	Everytime my mirror goes up, I can hear it, SR on or off.

11-23-2011, 01:00 AM	#22
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Yes, but now try explaining why you cannot hear it when SR is on and active. Perhaps it's your bad hearing. Really, why are you asking a question that would best be answered by a camera designer on an internet forum and then getting pissy because you are getting laymans answers? Last edited by Wheatfield; 11-23-2011 at 03:33 PM.

11-24-2011, 04:18 PM	#23
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055 Original Poster	Originally posted by Wheatfield Perhaps it's your bad hearing. Really, why are you asking a question that would best be answered by a camera designer on an internet forum and then getting pissy because you are getting laymans answers? Just because you cannot help, it doesn't mean that there aren't other users that could. Even if no one has the answer, I can still get useful information such as people confirming that their K20D doesn't make any noise or finding users whose K20D actually does make a noise. If you know a better forum where Pentax engineers congregate to answer customer questions, please let me know what it is. Even if you don't want to help me anymore, you can still benefit other users by sharing such information. Is it such an out of place gesture to ask a question about Pentax cameras in the "Pentax DSLR Discussion" part of the leading Pentax discussion site on the planet? Also, I am not "pissy". Although I would have all rights to be, if I decided to be so. I didn't make personal remarks about any of the posters that replied on this thread, I only commented about not getting an answer and about people presenting their speculations as truth. And for this I got back replies calling me sour, condescending, pompous, ingrate, and now "pissy". Interesting assortment of "educated" answers. Not surprising, just matter of fact stuff. Happens all the time. Excuse me for not being appreciative ... and for being a bit sarcastic in return.

11-24-2011, 11:29 PM	#24
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	Some (partially) plausible explanations. Something generates a sound of a certain frequency in the camera; the volume is low and you can't actually hear it. However the camera is a resonation chamber that will amplify certain frequencies (resonance frequency as well as harmonics (multiples of the resonance frequency)). Volume of the chamber as well as materials will define the exact resonance frequency. If the frequency of the generated sound matches the resonance frequency of the chamber, the sound will be amplified to a level that is audible. Live view versus normal use will change the volume of the chamber because the mirror is up (or not) and hence a different resonance frequency. K20D versus K5 will also be a different resonance chamber and hence a different resonance frequency. I agree with the others that it is the SR as it's the only part in the camera that is actually active all the time. But don't ask me how the sound is actually generated. SR enabled versus SR disabled might or might not change the frequency of the generated sound; it depends on the symptoms that you get

11-25-2011, 04:59 AM	#26
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	It's the SR mechanism. And as far as I know all Pentax cameras with SR is sometimes silent and sometimes audible. So the K20 isn't always silent, and the K7 isn't always audible. Focal length affects the SR (when SR is activated) and the sound emitted. Different play in the mechanism can cause different cameras to be more or less audible.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

12-03-2011, 12:54 PM	#27
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055 Original Poster	The difference I noticed was striking, not at all a matter of "now you hear it, now you don't". My friend and I have both been away last week but I'll check with him to see if his camera is also silent when the mirror is lifted up for cleaning. SR makes no noise during regular use, so why would it make noise during LiveView? You can just press the shutter half way to activate the SR indicator in the viewfinder and listen to the camera while keeping SR activated - it's completely silent. Go into LiveView and you suddenly have the same noise that the camera makes when you lift the mirror up. The noise the camera makes was the main reason I didn't warm up to the LiveView feature and I used it only sparingly - I always felt the camera is making some effort to sustain the feature and it may break at any point - I just didn't feel comfortable using it like that. So, obviously, I've been surprised to find that an older model that supposedly had an inferior implementation of LiveView, actually worked better.

12-04-2011, 02:03 AM	#28
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor SR makes no noise during regular use, so why would it make noise during LiveView? You can just press the shutter half way to activate the SR indicator in the viewfinder and listen to the camera while keeping SR activated - it's completely silent. Go into LiveView and you suddenly have the same noise that the camera makes when you lift the mirror up. That's because the servo motors that lift/control the sensor plate (and cause the noise) isn't engaged (even though the SR icon is lit) until they are actually needed. And they are not needed when the shutter is closed. But when the shutter is open, they are engaged, even if SR is off, thus the sound can be heard during long exposures, video, live view or sensor cleaning.

12-04-2011, 06:12 PM	#29
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055 Original Poster	Originally posted by Gimbal That's because the servo motors that lift/control the sensor plate (and cause the noise) isn't engaged (even though the SR icon is lit) until they are actually needed. And they are not needed when the shutter is closed. But when the shutter is open, they are engaged, even if SR is off, thus the sound can be heard during long exposures, video, live view or sensor cleaning. Interesting - so what is the SR icon indicating then? That the system thinks it got the vibration rhythm and can keep up with it? I just checked with my friend and with the lens removed from the body, he can hear a very slight sound when using LV or lifting the mirror up - the sound is hard to hear with a lens mounted on, unlike with the newer cameras. Strange that the K-7 lost whatever sound dampening the K20D had. I am wondering how the K-5 is - does it make the same sound as K-7/K-x or is it more silent in LV?

12-04-2011, 06:56 PM	#30
ChipB Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Eau Claire, WI Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,701	I have both a K20D and a K-x - both sound the same in live view - some sort of "whirring" noise. Never noticed it before, but then I've never put my ear up to the camera before!! And FWIW, both cameras sounded 'bout the same with SR off and in manual focus mode.