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12-18-2007, 10:23 AM   #1
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K20d rumours - Infrared

I know there has been talk about the anticipated arrival of the K20d. Was wondering if anyone knows if the infared filteration built into the K10d making for very long infrared exposures, will be possibly corrected in the K20d.

I ordered a Hoya72 Infared filter and still want to take photos with the k10d regardless.

Thanks
David

12-18-2007, 03:31 PM   #2
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You seem to be defining the K10D's current infrared filtration as a mistake requiring correction, which is not the case. The filtration was increased to improve color tones (reduce red channel oversaturation, for example), increase image sharpness, and enhance auto-focus performance, with the first two especially desirable in higher-resolution cameras. Given such benefits, strong infrared filtration will likely be included with most higher-resolution digital cameras in the future, including those made by Pentax.

Your remaining options for infrared photography include purchasing a camera without heavy infrared filtration (mainly lower-resolution models), modifying an existing higher-resolution camera to remove infrared filtration (reducing it's performace as a standard camera), or purchasing a camera specifically designed for the task - or simply tolerating the very long exposures associated with heavy infrared filtration.

stewart
12-18-2007, 03:47 PM   #3
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What Stewart said is correct. It's not a flaw to be corrected. For those wanting to shoot IR or also Astrophotography, The best bet you be to pick up a used K110,100 or a *istD series body and send it to Pentax to have the filter removed that blocks some of the IR light. Of course it will be pretty much useless for regular shooting after that's done.

Several shooters here have used the above cameras with Hoya 72 IR filters with some excellent results, so there may not be a need to do anything other than get an older body.
12-18-2007, 04:17 PM   #4
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I've seen several beautiful shots taken on un-modified Pentax digital SLR cameras with just the Hoya 72 IR filter.
So it's possible, you just have to try a few things out. Or do a search, 1 member did a how-too not all that long ago.

The Sigma SD14 had a nice little design where that filter can be removed and installed like a little lens, located under the lens. You can see it here.

I don't know if anyone else does this

It also helps keep dust off the sensor, but it isn't perfect.
For one thing there isn't much room between this filter, and the lens making it tough to find a third party lens to work without modifying.
Plus the dust still gets past, and it's tougher to clean.

12-20-2007, 03:43 PM   #5
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I guess I'll try the K10d with a Hoya 72 as a start. ALways was interested in Infrared Photography. When everyone speaks of long exposures, what is average time for a moderately sunlit day? Would an exposure of over 30 seconds be needed with a Hoya 72?
12-20-2007, 03:44 PM   #6
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Wow. That is a nice feature of the Sigma. I did a search on Ebay and that camera is very expensive. Is that a past model of a few years ago?

Thanks
Dave



QuoteOriginally posted by little laker Quote
I've seen several beautiful shots taken on un-modified Pentax digital SLR cameras with just the Hoya 72 IR filter.
So it's possible, you just have to try a few things out. Or do a search, 1 member did a how-too not all that long ago.

The Sigma SD14 had a nice little design where that filter can be removed and installed like a little lens, located under the lens. You can see it here.

I don't know if anyone else does this

It also helps keep dust off the sensor, but it isn't perfect.
For one thing there isn't much room between this filter, and the lens making it tough to find a third party lens to work without modifying.
Plus the dust still gets past, and it's tougher to clean.
12-21-2007, 01:15 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by ruemiser Quote
Wow. That is a nice feature of the Sigma. I did a search on Ebay and that camera is very expensive. Is that a past model of a few years ago?

Thanks
Dave
SD 14 is the newest Sigma DSLR. It came out earlier this year I believe. I have recently entered competition where I could win one. Fingers crossed.
12-21-2007, 01:38 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by ruemiser Quote
I guess I'll try the K10d with a Hoya 72 as a start. ALways was interested in Infrared Photography. When everyone speaks of long exposures, what is average time for a moderately sunlit day? Would an exposure of over 30 seconds be needed with a Hoya 72?
On the k10d I would say yes it is a good possibility. All I remember when I tried IR with the k10d and a hoya 72 filter was frustration. Extremely hard to see anything at all in the viewfinder. I just never did get it worked out. I have an old Panasonic fz1v2 2mp camera that doesn't have the current strong IR filters that are found in most cams these days. I also just had a refurbished fuji f20 converted to an IR camera, total cost $308.00. No manual controls and of course bitter IQ compared to a k10d, but hand holding IR shots is a sweet deal. And for IR work I think it is easier to get away with the image quality. It is so small that I clip it onto whatever bag I'm using with the k10d. Great fun factor. And if I get rich some day maybe I'll get a dedicated dslr IR camera.

12-21-2007, 02:33 AM   #9
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The IR Cut pass Filter has to be there in order for you to take normal pictures. IR light really screws up normal shots. The reason some cameras are better at IR then others is due to the better ones having weaker IR filters, but those usually do not take as good of normal images.

The best way in a dSLR to shoot IR is to have your camera modified. But I don't know of anywhere that does Pentax cameras, just Canon and Nikon.

I like using my Sony DSC-F717 to shoot IR. Its NightShot mode actually removes the IR cut pass away from the sensor when turned on. So by using a Hoya RM72 or other IR filter you can do handheld IR shots. Bad thing, Sony firmware locks shutter speed to a max of 1/80th sec. So in good daylight an NDx8 is pretty much a must have!

But on the K10D it can still be done.

1. Set your custom white balance off a real green area
2. frame your shot up with the filter off
3. screw the filter on the lens
4. use the 2sec MLU mode
5. I typically shoot f/8
6. shutter speed will vary depending on amount of light available
7. ISO400 is a nice compromise for getting a faster shutter speed and just do some NR later
8. of course use a tripod
9. Using a red 25A filter on top of the IR filter will give you even darker skies and more distinct contrast between the clouds

If you want to play around but do not want to spend a fortune on an IR filter right away, find yourself an old 5.25" floppy disk. Take it apart and use the film inside and an old filter ring to make yourself an IR filter. Works nicely.

Hoya RM72 work nicely and allow you for those wildly colored IR shots, or just B&W as well, since it is only near IR and not a full IR filter like the RM90 or 87c filters.

Here are some of my IR shots:
Infrared Photo Gallery by JameyS at pbase.com

None with the K10D yet though.

When I sold all my Canon gear I did keep a 20D + 50mm f/1.8 MkII and am having the 20D converted over to full time IR by LifePixel

Yes, the Sigma SD14 is new this year, not to mention one darn fine camera!!! I dare to say, probably one of the best out there for Portrait, Landscapes, and Macro work! The FoveonX3 sensor just really blows the socks off of Bayer based sensors. The technology is amazing if you read up on/about it!! The output is equal to Full Frame really in details. It will go head to head with the 5D in image/print quality! But the colors are far more accurate on the SD14!!
12-21-2007, 04:15 AM   #10
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I tried to buy a Fuijifilm IS-1 Pro to no avail. They are only sold to police departments or other like agencies.

And yet, I see the darn camera reviewed everywhere. Its not fair I tell you.
12-21-2007, 06:10 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by ruemiser Quote
I guess I'll try the K10d with a Hoya 72 as a start. ALways was interested in Infrared Photography. When everyone speaks of long exposures, what is average time for a moderately sunlit day? Would an exposure of over 30 seconds be needed with a Hoya 72?
My experiments in the back yard with my K10D were around 17-20 seconds. A calm day is needed for sure.:-0

I kept my istD just for this, IR shooting.

Dave
12-21-2007, 08:50 PM   #12
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Beautiful IR shots. The Tower Photo looks similar to an area I recall at LongWood Gardens. They have a similar tower. Anyhow, I have my Hoya72 Filter. It arrived today. Planning to take some test photos tomorrow of Park in my area in which 17 acres is due to be developed thanks to the our beloved Fairmount Park Commission. I am trying to get a good photo record of the area in both conventional and IR shots.

Thanks
David







QuoteOriginally posted by digitaldevo Quote
The IR Cut pass Filter has to be there in order for you to take normal pictures. IR light really screws up normal shots. The reason some cameras are better at IR then others is due to the better ones having weaker IR filters, but those usually do not take as good of normal images.

The best way in a dSLR to shoot IR is to have your camera modified. But I don't know of anywhere that does Pentax cameras, just Canon and Nikon.

I like using my Sony DSC-F717 to shoot IR. Its NightShot mode actually removes the IR cut pass away from the sensor when turned on. So by using a Hoya RM72 or other IR filter you can do handheld IR shots. Bad thing, Sony firmware locks shutter speed to a max of 1/80th sec. So in good daylight an NDx8 is pretty much a must have!

But on the K10D it can still be done.

1. Set your custom white balance off a real green area
2. frame your shot up with the filter off
3. screw the filter on the lens
4. use the 2sec MLU mode
5. I typically shoot f/8
6. shutter speed will vary depending on amount of light available
7. ISO400 is a nice compromise for getting a faster shutter speed and just do some NR later
8. of course use a tripod
9. Using a red 25A filter on top of the IR filter will give you even darker skies and more distinct contrast between the clouds

If you want to play around but do not want to spend a fortune on an IR filter right away, find yourself an old 5.25" floppy disk. Take it apart and use the film inside and an old filter ring to make yourself an IR filter. Works nicely.

Hoya RM72 work nicely and allow you for those wildly colored IR shots, or just B&W as well, since it is only near IR and not a full IR filter like the RM90 or 87c filters.

Here are some of my IR shots:
Infrared Photo Gallery by JameyS at pbase.com

None with the K10D yet though.

When I sold all my Canon gear I did keep a 20D + 50mm f/1.8 MkII and am having the 20D converted over to full time IR by LifePixel

Yes, the Sigma SD14 is new this year, not to mention one darn fine camera!!! I dare to say, probably one of the best out there for Portrait, Landscapes, and Macro work! The FoveonX3 sensor just really blows the socks off of Bayer based sensors. The technology is amazing if you read up on/about it!! The output is equal to Full Frame really in details. It will go head to head with the 5D in image/print quality! But the colors are far more accurate on the SD14!!
12-21-2007, 11:30 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chako Quote
I tried to buy a Fuijifilm IS-1 Pro to no avail. They are only sold to police departments or other like agencies.

And yet, I see the darn camera reviewed everywhere. Its not fair I tell you.
Here ya go
Fuji S9100 (IS-1)

Same as the IS-1, but no need to be Law Enforcement
12-24-2007, 08:34 PM   #14
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After looking at all the IR options, I went ahead and bought the new Canon G9 and had Life Pixel convert it with a 665 nanometer enhanced color IR filter. It works GREAT, with instant pics vs. long exposure times of the external filters and thus, usually needing a tripod.

Using the live view (viewfinder isn't that great) takes a bit of getting used to however (the K10D is my regular camera). I am new to IR photography and feel if someone really wants to get into it without the limitations of an external filter, then converting one is the way to go.

Their site has a list of cameras they work on, prices, example pics and free tutorials. I needed the camera very quickly and they turned it around in one day (albeit for an extra fee) and had it back to me in less than one week with shipping both ways.

I highly recommend them (found out about them from Dave Busch's "Digital Infrared Pro Secrets" book.

Good luck!
Phil Weber
12-25-2007, 03:33 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by philipweber Quote
After looking at all the IR options, I went ahead and bought the new Canon G9 and had Life Pixel convert it with a 665 nanometer enhanced color IR filter. It works GREAT, with instant pics vs. long exposure times of the external filters and thus, usually needing a tripod.
...
Phil Weber
I checked out Life Pixel's web site and they have several interesting options. If one wants a dedicated IR camera the low pass 665 and 720 would be a nice way to go (except no Pentax support). They offer a clear filter which is essentially like my no filter K110D IR/Astronomy camera. I understand some cameras mechanically require a clear filter, but my K110D does not. Its sensor is held solidly on the board, the filter was held against it but did not support it.

There is a company that makes an external lens filter that blocks IR with a curve similar to the internal filter. This would allow no filter camera like mine or clear filter camera to act like a normal color camera. It would never replace my stock K100D but would expand what my K110D can do.
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