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12-20-2007, 02:56 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Leica keeps selling because it's Leica. You buy a Leica because that's what Cartier Bresson used, man. It's got lenses made by magical elves, and frames forged by dwarfs over flames from the mouth of a mystical, aeons-old dragon, or some such nonsense.
I would be deemed mad and ultimately end up in divorce court if I spend $5,000+ on a freakin' Leica M8, given my current financial status. If, however, I manage to win the 649 Lottery prize of $14M this weekend I would eagerly buy one and go take a picture of dog crap. Then I'd wait for the thunderous clap and the blinding flash of heavenly lightning just before my eventual and complete demise as all the pompous Leica owners of the universe would rise up and lash out in unison.
Heathen! Sacrilege! Smite Him!

12-20-2007, 03:22 AM   #17
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Years ago, Pentax had a very compact camera, the Pentax 110 SLR. If they ever bring back a digital version, I'd buy it without hesitation. Regretted giving it away many years ago, aargh.

Compact digital cameras today are closer to video cameras as they take a single frame of a live view image. If a digital version of the Pentax 110 hits the drawing board, it might give rangefinders a run for the money. Obviously it must match and exceed the specs of the current crop of compact point and shoot cameras.
12-20-2007, 05:23 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Oh, I've got nothing against rangefinders.

Just Leicas. The Rolex of the camera world.
I'm not sure why that should automatically be a bad thing. I assume you realize that Leica will still repair ANY Leica M-series camera ever made, right? That they pretty much invented photography as we know it today (with 35mm movie film in still cameras)?

I loved my Voigtländer Vitessa ( Voigtlander Vitessa L ) ( Vitessa - Camerapedia.org ). Compact, quiet, unobtrusive. Nice glass. Still have it, but would buy a digital replacement in a heartbeat (hell, I'd buy the M8 if I could afford it). There is definitely a market there that could be exploited.
12-20-2007, 09:18 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by J.Scott Quote
I would be deemed mad and ultimately end up in divorce court if I spend $5,000+ on a freakin' Leica M8, given my current financial status. If, however, I manage to win the 649 Lottery prize of $14M this weekend I would eagerly buy one and go take a picture of dog crap. Then I'd wait for the thunderous clap and the blinding flash of heavenly lightning just before my eventual and complete demise as all the pompous Leica owners of the universe would rise up and lash out in unison.
Heathen! Sacrilege! Smite Him!
J.Scott gets it .

I'll say this: they make damn good cameras, and damn good glass. And, yes, they have damn good service.

But we're not on the Pentax Forum because we like blowing pointless money on gear, are we?

They are damn good. But still, I'd say their reputation - the hype - outstretches the reality by a few thousand SJU.* Often, you'll hear "that Leica sharpness" or "that Leica quality" with no further explanation. They're just "beautiful."

But they are also, to use a phrase noted economist John Maynard Keynes once said, "f*cking expensive."

Given an infinite supply of cash, I could build the best camera in the world. I could make Leica look like Holga.

But this is the real world, bad weather and taxes and all, and most of us don't have $4000~ to waste on a camera system that can't do macro or teles beyond 135mm.

QuoteOriginally posted by Duck Dodgers Quote
I'm not sure why that should automatically be a bad thing. I assume you realize that Leica will still repair ANY Leica M-series camera ever made, right? That they pretty much invented photography as we know it today (with 35mm movie film in still cameras)?

I loved my Voigtländer Vitessa ( Voigtlander Vitessa L ) ( Vitessa - Camerapedia.org ). Compact, quiet, unobtrusive. Nice glass. Still have it, but would buy a digital replacement in a heartbeat (hell, I'd buy the M8 if I could afford it). There is definitely a market there that could be exploited.
I'll get to the core of my argument. I can't stand pretention; it's a personaly, a character trait, a character flaw. Call it what you will .

My Rolex comparison is based on being the generic Rich Guy's (or Gal's) Watch. It's a sartorial synonym for "I've got money, but learnt my quality control skills and taste from movies." Ask most people what, say, Patek Philippe is, or Vacheron Contstantin, and they'd have no clue.

The best way judge this is see how many knockoffs of an item their are, to see how much people want a logo and not a product.

If you wanna see what I mean, check Panasonic's P&S cameras, and then check Leica's. Note the suspicious similarities...

Remember, people hated the M5. And the CL was made by Minolta. The M8's still got a crop factor, so it loses one the the advantages RFs have over an SLR - better wides.

There's no doubt Oscar was smart in choosing 35mm. But I would not have been surprised if Leica killed it off - remember, their early thirty fives (and some of the later ones) were absolute bitches to load.

The camera that spread the love of 35 was...the Argus A.

*Steve Jobs Units: the standard international unit for the measurement of hype.

12-20-2007, 09:35 AM   #20
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You're right about there being a large amount of pretension with Leicas. I've always thought their bodies were insanely overpriced. But their lenses earned their reputation. Leica makes some danged good glass.
12-20-2007, 09:37 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Given an infinite supply of cash, I could build the best camera in the world. I could make Leica look like Holga.

But this is the real world, bad weather and taxes and all, and most of us don't have $4000~ to waste on a camera system that can't do macro or teles beyond 135mm.
Yes, an excellent and important point. I remember an interview years and years ago with Andy Hertzfeld, one of the geniuses behind the original Apple Macintosh. The interview might have been in Byte mag (RIP). Anyway, he was asked what his ideal or dream computer would be like. The interviewer no doubt was asking, "What's your fantasy?" Hertzfeld had no fantasies: Instead of answering, he came back with, "What's it going to sell for?" That's always struck me. It's called being "grounded in reality."

Me, I'm not so much grounded in reality as tragically stuck in it. I can't help fantasizing.


QuoteQuote:
SJU = *Steve Jobs Units: the standard international unit for the measurement of hype.
Heh.

Will
12-20-2007, 10:22 AM   #22
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I figure I better tell you, before I reach 100 posts, I'm a threadjacker.

I've come across too many people who believeth the gear (read: money spent) maketh the photo. And it can help - it's true.

But I offer to put their gear up to the Boot Test: I take their $2000+ Canon/Nikon/Leica/etc. and they take my Ricoh KR10M or Pentax ME, and we dropkick each others' cameras as far as we can.

Then we see who's out more money.

Or who chickens out first.
12-20-2007, 10:41 AM   #23
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this thread sure bring out all the rants and raves on Leica! i can't afford Leica myself, and even if i could i probably won't buy it just because of the name. But they do make outstanding lens, and that is the basis of comparison with Pentax lens. They do stick to the basic of designing a good camera for photographer, and that is another DNA traits similar to K1000 and K10D camera. pricing it is just marketing cleverness.
Rangefinder or not, a small quality camera with good optic is what is lacking in the overall market. Pentax should address this big huge hole and get on it. why not make a digital 110?

12-20-2007, 11:44 AM   #24
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Re: digital version of the Auto 110 SLR.

That. Would. Be. Cool.


(I lusted after the original, lo those many years ago...)
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