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12-24-2007, 12:28 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Can anyone else here verify an actual difference in noise between hardware revisions? I have two K10D cameras, one purchased several months ago (hardware revision 2.1) and the other purchased just two weeks ago (hardware revision 2.6). Anyway, I set out to verify this myself by testing both cameras under the same conditions (subject, lighting, computer, etc), but could not, in the end, find any consistent differences in the resulting images (over 20 total). Even prints viewed with a magnifying glass were virtually identical (no consistent differences). Those tests, of various subjects taken at ISO 800 & 1600, included dim daylight, normal room lighting, various semi-darkened conditions, and flash lighting in total darkness.

stewart
Thanks Stewart, I feel better now I try not to use over 400iso anyhow

12-24-2007, 01:00 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stratman Quote
I'm scratching my head too...My K10 was manufactured 10/24/2007, but is revision 2.1 according to PhotoME
Scratching my head, also. I downloaded PhotoME. I open a PEF file, click on the "camera" button at the top of the PhotoME user interface, and it says my camera was manufactured 20061207 and the "model revision" is 1.2....


Will
12-24-2007, 01:29 PM   #48
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Checked with the author of PhotoME...

I joined the PhotoME forum, and asked the question about the source of the identification of "Manufacture Date, Rev and Internal Serial Number"; Jens Duttke (PhotoME author) replied:

Hello!

The "Manufacture Date" information is most likely not the manufacture date of the camera itself, but of a component of the camera - the component where the date comes from (for example a processor or memory module); or maybe something totally different.

The second LONG value in the tag 0x215 (the CameraInfo-tag) always looks like a date value - that's why it was assumed, that it is a manufacture date. The idea to call it "Manufacture Date" comes from Phil Harvey.

I've also heared of people with an *istD, that the date of their camera is behind the date, where they bought the camera. So it could be also the date of the last service check, the last camera reset or something like that.
A friend of Phil checked with his *istD, if the date get changed while installing a firmware update, but this isn't the case.

The only thing which is sure, is that it is a date. :wink:
Since Pentax write it to the maker notes, it must be an important date, but I assume only Pentax knows, what this date exactly means.

The same count for the Model Revision and Internal Serial Number. These informations looks like a model revision and serial number, that's why they have these names. Since Pentax does not provide any informations about that, the meaning of these informations can only be assumed.

If you or anyone else figure something out about that, please let me know.

Cu, Jens
Have not checked with Phil Harvey to see if he can provide further insight...
12-24-2007, 01:33 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Scratching my head, also. I downloaded PhotoME. I open a PEF file, click on the "camera" button at the top of the PhotoME user interface, and it says my camera was manufactured 20061207 and the "model revision" is 1.2....


Will
This excatly what I got...

12-24-2007, 02:00 PM   #50
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By the way, the firmware version at the time I took the photo that I tested was also 1.2 -- in other words the hardware "revision" was the same as the firmware version. This, I suppose, is not impossible. I can't remember exactly when I purchased by K10D. In December 2006 was I used a K100D -- I didn't get the K10D until January or perhaps February 2007. I bought it from Amazon and would have expected to get a "fresh" one with a manufacture date in 2007 rather than early December 2006. But I don't know.

For what it's worth, I've never felt that the noise in my photos was significantly worse than the noise in photos taken by the K100D or the *ist DS. But now I feel that I may have "bad" early build of the K10D. Is there anything that can be done about that?

Will
12-24-2007, 02:17 PM   #51
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I know I bought mine in feb 2007 and yet, according to photome, it was built in july 2007, so go figure.
12-24-2007, 05:29 PM   #52
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Reply from Phil Harvey on Date, Rev, SN...

I just got this e-mail response from Phil Harvey, the author of EXIFTools. He makes a good point about including the purchase date into the mix. If anyone wants to provide same, I'll put the data together for Phil and maybe we all can sort this out!

Phil's reply:

Hi Curt,


Thanks for the email. This is very interesting.


These tag names are my best guess at what the information could mean, but with the help of people like you we can perhaps nail things down a little better. I can add 2 more samples to your list, from my friend's K10D and my own:


ManuDate Purchase Rev S/N
20061021 20061202 1.2 3383102
20070913 20071022 2.1 132352


Here the second date is the purchase date, which in both cases is about 5 weeks after the "ManufactureDate" in the camera. Because of this, I don't think it could be a date inside a component, since 5 weeks is already not much time to deliver the camera to a retailer in Canada after manufacture. But I don't know much about manufacturing, so perhaps this is still possible. We both ordered our cameras, so they didn't spend any time sitting around on retail store shelves.


I can't, however, explain the really early dates. Also, the internal serial number seems unique for each camera, but doesn't increment sequentially as you mention. It is possible this is encoded, as a few of the other Pentax tags have been (ShutterCount and the FirmwareID tags). Your data for the ModelRevision tag is also interesting, but again I'm not sure what this means.


It would be interesting to collect even more data if possible, with purchase dates too. If any of the values are encrypted we may start seeing a pattern.


- Phil
FWIW, here is my 'augmented' data:

20051201, 20070504 (May 4th, 2007), 1.5, 5097223

Does anyone have an inside contact at Pentax???

Curt
12-24-2007, 08:07 PM   #53
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Exiftool is not showing a "purchase date."

All my dates :

Code:
$ exiftool  imgp0003.jpg|grep ate
File Modification Date/Time : 2007:11:21 20:25:00
Modify Date : 2007:11:21 20:25:00
Date/Time Original : 2007:11:21 20:25:00
Create Date : 2007:11:21 20:25:00
Date : 2007:11:21
Manufacture Date : 2007:08:01
Internal Serial Number : 4365299


12-24-2007, 08:25 PM   #54
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Manu date
2007AUG07

Purchase date
2007NOV11

Internal S/N
4434043

Revision 2.1

Last edited by Kentax; 12-25-2007 at 12:55 AM.
12-24-2007, 09:22 PM   #55
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Duck Dodgers: Purchase Date is not in EXIF data - it's when you obtained your K10D... Curt
12-24-2007, 09:23 PM   #56
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Kentax, what ModelRevision value do you show? Thanks!
12-24-2007, 09:44 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by MNCurt-K10D Quote
Duck Dodgers: Purchase Date is not in EXIF data - it's when you obtained your K10D... Curt
Oh. Duh.

Okay, then... FWIW, I ordered mine Nov-16 and took delivery Nov-21.
12-25-2007, 02:12 AM   #58
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Looking at B%H i came across this in the specs.

Image File Formats
RAW (PEF or DNG)
JPEG (Best, Better, Good)
Exif 2.21, DCF, DPOF, PRINT Image Matching III

Pentax | K10D SLR, Digital Camera (Camera Body) | 19091 | B&H

So there might just be something to all of this.
12-25-2007, 11:09 AM   #59
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Fresh out of the box before any updates at all. Merry Christmas!!!

Manudate: 2007110607
Purchasedate: 20071218
Revision: 2.1
S/N: 4552693
12-25-2007, 12:06 PM   #60
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Location: Germany
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Manufacture Date: 20071115
Date of purchase: 20071217
Model Revision: 2.1
Internal S/N: 4615358
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