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12-21-2007, 03:27 PM   #16
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The biggest problem with gymnastics is that you can't move around much, but each event is in a different spot in the gym. For instance, you might set up shop around the beam, but when its time for floor or bars, you have to shoot across the gym.

I think I also see a problem with a correlation between zoom measurement, ie film zoom doesn't equal digital zoom, and what's the correlation between these two and the "X" designation of point and shoots (such as 3x or 5x optical zoom)?

12-21-2007, 03:57 PM   #17
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Wow! A rookie mastering sports action shots!
Should have gone with the K10D for faster continuous shooting!
But having fast telezooms makes all the difference - if you can afford it!
12-21-2007, 04:15 PM   #18
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I have found that I can get really interesting shots at basketball games in a local high school with a 28mm (18mm dSLR) on the sidelines right under the basket. Shoot with both eyes open so you can jump out of the way when something goes wrong.
12-21-2007, 06:21 PM   #19
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I would have liked the K10, but budget limitations and the fact that the kit lens wasn't going to do the trick for indoor made the k100 the obvious choice for a beginner.

QuoteQuote:
I think I also see a problem with a correlation between zoom measurement, ie film zoom doesn't equal digital zoom, and what's the correlation between these two and the "X" designation of point and shoots (such as 3x or 5x optical zoom)?
I really would like someone to comment on this, and maybe I didn't state it so well, so I'll try again: What is the "rule of thumb" when correlating SLR zoom to DSLR zoom?

Along those same lines, I've been used to a point and shoot with 3X optical zoom. What is comparable (how many millimeters) to that in DSLR?

12-21-2007, 06:59 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by reoterq Quote
I really would like someone to comment on this, and maybe I didn't state it so well, so I'll try again: What is the "rule of thumb" when correlating SLR zoom to DSLR zoom?

Along those same lines, I've been used to a point and shoot with 3X optical zoom. What is comparable (how many millimeters) to that in DSLR?
As far as the Pentax DSLRs go, the lens factor is 1.5 - in other words, a 50mm lens on a SLR becomes, effectively, a 75mm lens on a Pentax DSLR (other mfgs vary, in general, from 1.5 to 1).

As to the P&S 3x - the 3x is simply the ratio on THAT particular lens. Has no relationship to actual mm.

Oh yeah, if you are shooting indoors WITHOUT the flash, don't forget to set the white balance for the type of lighting - tungstun, florescent, etc.
12-21-2007, 07:08 PM   #21
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reoterq - expensive dslr's are not necassarily the answer. A dslr that has good higher iso performance as well as good fast lens support is all you really need.
12-21-2007, 07:29 PM   #22
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My oldest daughter plays basketball and my son plays hockey both tough to shoot I've found on my K10D the higher iso to noisey but when backing it down to 800 it is ok, lighting is a problem I'm looking at buying a 50-135 lens because of the f2.8, however in post processing you can lighten the shots and get acceptable photos. But as it has been said practice your shots alot of my tuning shots were taken at practices not games so I could work on shutter speed, appature, and iso. Keep practicing at home the gym to find what works for you, I can say most of my hockey shots are between 77-130 and shutter speed of 90 to 125 and the action stops fine this is using a sigma 70-300 lens. Hope this helps.
12-21-2007, 08:21 PM   #23
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Chip - Thanks for the lens length comparison - I'm still trying to get my brain wrapped around the p&s ratio thing. I'm trying to get an idea of how much zoom I'll get out of a certain rating of dslr lens by comparison.

Tom - Thanks. You just helped me justify my purchase.

Sluggo - That helps more than you know. Seeing what works for others helps to get settings that are in the ballpark, then I can adjust to my preferences. Do you have any sample shots?

12-21-2007, 10:24 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by reoterq Quote
Chip - Thanks for the lens length comparison - I'm still trying to get my brain wrapped around the p&s ratio thing. I'm trying to get an idea of how much zoom I'll get out of a certain rating of dslr lens by comparison.
The manual of your p&s camera should tell you the 35mm equivelent - or you might be able to "google" it and find an answer there. Once you know that, it's an easy leap to what it would be on your DSLR.

EDIT: As to the 3x on the p&s - that's simply the "spread" between the widest lens setting and the "longest" (or telephoto) setting. For example, in the 35mm world a 70-210mm lens is very common - that's a 3x lens.

Last edited by ChipB; 12-21-2007 at 10:27 PM. Reason: Add info.
12-21-2007, 11:39 PM   #25
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I can't answer your P&S question. I've got a P&S and I've used it for family snaps and such, but it has far to many limitations for my taste especially when shooting sports. It' seems best suited to stills-still life, in-animate objects... I've never used one to shoot sports in any serious fashion.

The crop factor or magnification factor or what ever else you may have heard it called with respect to 35mm VS digital sensor 'size' has nothing to do with either magnification or focal length per se. It effects the field of view-hence the crappy term 'crop factor'. There is a precise calculation but for general use it's about 1.5 in the aps-c sensor wrt 35mm situation.

If you multiply the 35mm lens focal length by the 1.5 factor you get a new, longer focal length that is meaningless (because the lens doesn't magically grow) except as it relates to field of view. A 50mm lens on a 35mm film camera will generate a 75mm field of view on the aps-c sized digital camera--i.e. smaller. So if you fill the frame with a standing man on the film camera some will get cut off on the digital if you stand in the same place to take the shot. It appears to give an greater magnification-but it doesn't.

And unless you really need the math and all the hang-ups entailed it doesn't really matter. Ultimately you will need to adjust to the digital environment and that means using shorter focal lengths than were typical in film cameras to get similar fields of view. That's the total extent of the 'adjustment' and it is readily learned with a little practice.

Rule of thumb: to get a field of view of an 'N' focal length film lens use an 'N/crop factor' length lens on a digital camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by reoterq Quote
I would have liked the K10, but budget limitations and the fact that the kit lens wasn't going to do the trick for indoor made the k100 the obvious choice for a beginner.



I really would like someone to comment on this, and maybe I didn't state it so well, so I'll try again: What is the "rule of thumb" when correlating SLR zoom to DSLR zoom?

Along those same lines, I've been used to a point and shoot with 3X optical zoom. What is comparable (how many millimeters) to that in DSLR?
12-21-2007, 11:59 PM   #26
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There are still a couple of things that are missing in this discussion and they can make a big difference with sports shooting; essentially they make the difference between personal album use of the photos and commercial publication or sale.

You really need a quality white balance reference target and you need to use it to set a custom white balance repeatedly throughout the event. Even if you shoot RAW! I can explain why (for this and those items that follow) but very few users are equipped to understand that material--just do it! And do it weather or not you incorporate the following suggestions-everyone will be appreciative!

If you are meticulous about color, you need Photoshop, a MacBeth ColorChecker-you need to shoot it every time you white balance and you need some variation of Tom Fors' ACR calibrator---and this would go hand-in-hand with a photo spectrometer and monitor/scanner/camera/printer calibration and profiling software. You could substitute InCamera from Picto-something or other for the Fors routine; then you get a quasi-input-profile based on either the s- or aRGB color space. This is faster than Fors' routine, but an order of magnitude more expensive.

The alternative is endless and futile color adjustments.

The most effective digital noise control will be something like Noise Ninja or Neat Image. Print the reference target, shoot it along with the white balance routine already outlined about midway through the event, build a custom noise profile for every venue in a similar fashion and incorporate a noise abatement step in your post processing workflow.

This will make the high ISO problem virtually moot.
12-22-2007, 12:09 AM   #27
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I really hope you don't mean the multi-frame capability as is found under the fn key/menu (K10)--the one that shoots multiple frames with a single shutter button press. Are you familiar with the adage: "useless as teats on a boar pig"? There is also something on this forum about 'silly feature for...".

I'll, more or less pass on the fast telezoom quip-we seem to be living in the zoom age. The reality is any fast glass will get the job done---in fact glass faster than f/2.8, even in a fixed focal length lens would actually be much better.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Wow! A rookie mastering sports action shots!
Should have gone with the K10D for faster continuous shooting!
But having fast telezooms makes all the difference - if you can afford it!
12-22-2007, 12:36 AM   #28
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Here's some final advise gleaned from 34 years shooting sports:

The successful sports shooter rarely uses a zoom lens. And even less seldom anything like the 'power zoom' feature. Most prefer the fastest primes they can find in focal lengths the know to be acceptable for a particular sport shot.

Very few sports shooters use auto focus (I would guess none ever depend on it for a money shot-I've certainly never met one that has had reliable experience in the matter---camera brand not withstanding) and many shun auto exposure like a plague. You will find them walking out distances and shooting gray-cards in the moments just before the team enters to begin their pre-game warm-ups. They do a lot of looking up to see where the best light can be found in this pre-event ritual too.

As for gimmicks like multi-frame, most just nod politely while thinking things like 'idiot', 'dope' and 'fool' about anyone suggesting such 'tools'. That's what all the tittering is about in the press room most of the time.

It's easy to see why. Every 'auto' feature will cause the camera to 'think' and possibly take some 'action' and this 'thinking' and 'acting' must occur between the shutter button press and the shutter action--quite a detour from the task at hand. Setting the zoom and focus are easy to master tasks and the light just doesn't change all that much in the time it takes to make the typical play in a game like basketball (or hockey or volleyball, or any other sport for that matter).

The benefits of practice have already been mentioned.

But hey, you don't need to take my word for it...
12-22-2007, 10:43 AM   #29
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I speak from inexperience, but wouldn't multiframe shooting catch a few "accidental" great shots you wouldn't ordinarily get? And why is the multiframe under the Fn key useless?
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