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12-25-2007, 06:45 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
But Nikon has done something right, maybe it's the pricing, maybe it's the marketing.

D40x is the No. 1 DSLRs in Japan in terms of sales. And this one single camera model (not including D40) amazingly accounts for 20% of DSLRs market in Japan.
Actually, I heard from my sales guy over at samy's that the D40 series is the number one selling DSLR in the world. They can't get enough of them.

12-25-2007, 06:56 PM   #17
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Once upon a time, the Ford Escort (and its variants) was the number one selling car in the world, too. *Shrugs*

That said, it sure would be nice to see Pentax gain some market share. I do believe they're on the right track, though. It'll be interesting to see what PMA07 brings...
12-25-2007, 07:03 PM   #18
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It is marketing and name recognition. When's the last time you saw a Pentax commercial on TV? I see Canon on TV all the time and Nikon has full page ads in the paper all the time.

My ex bought a D40 and she already has bought a D80 (within a few months)...grew out of it quick! I looked at the D80 and it felt to plasticky to me.

Anyway, Pentax makes a fine product.
12-25-2007, 07:38 PM   #19
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You get what you pay for most of the time

QuoteOriginally posted by Duck Dodgers Quote
Once upon a time, the Ford Escort (and its variants) was the number one selling car in the world, too. *Shrugs*

That said, it sure would be nice to see Pentax gain some market share. I do believe they're on the right track, though. It'll be interesting to see what PMA07 brings...
Escort or Pinto it does not matter you get what you pay for, sell as many as you would like they are still garbage in the end. Very rarely will you find a Value Added product from a company that is run by "Bean Counters" looking for market share and PROFITABILITY, on that note Ford and GM quality didn't matter $$$$$$$$'s did, guess what happend to them what is their market share now? The "Big Three" is lead by Toyota that has been slow and steady, the old turtle and hare analogy. For What It Is Worth.

12-25-2007, 07:50 PM   #20
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Once again, people can't try out what they can't find! I almost gave up, but luckly I kept looking a week longer and found a vendor.
12-25-2007, 11:59 PM   #21
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With me, it was the backward compatability with lenses that got me. I ran Pentax SLR's for over thirty years and liked the results. I don't own a lot of great lenses but I love the ones I own. They all work on my K10D and I am moving forward to learn my camera. I really beleive that my K10D with the right operator............. can take just as great pictures as any Nikon or cannon. It is a poor workperson that blames his or her tools.............. Pentax feels good acts great. What more can I say.
12-26-2007, 07:02 AM   #22
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On the other hand....

I am a dedicated k10D owner (wouldn't have anything else) but one of my freinds wanted a DSLR so we went shopping. She has rheumatoid arthritis and the weight of the D40X was a huge point in it's favor. She tried holding a K10 D and couldn't grip it for long. So I guess there is a use for these lighter cameras after all. she did buy the Nikon and seems very happy with it..
Although if mugged I wouldn't hesitate to whack someone with my k10D (it is insured, of course)... The Nikon would just probably break.
12-27-2007, 09:14 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by crttr Quote
.... if mugged I wouldn't hesitate to whack someone with my k10D....
LOL! Absolutely.

Seriously, though, ergonomics count for a lot when buying a camera. I had the budget to buy the Nikon D200 if I felt that way inclined, but it simply felt wrong in my hands no matter how good a tool it is (and it is). That, and the sheer complexity of the chart(s) showing which lenses in the Nikon range do/do not work on which cameras. Yay, Pentax on that count - because they ALL work at least to some extent!

That said, the weight of the K10D is a legitimate concern - on at least one key occasion I've deliberately gone to my 'old faithful' istDS for no other reason than it is significantly lighter to wield. And, you know, it's no slouch when it comes to taking good photos, either!

Which is where I return to the D40x. I see it as a camera I'd consider buying if I had the $$ to embark on a lengthy progression through the Nikon range as my skills and ambitions increased. I wish Pentax had the market presence that could overcome peoples' inertia, and aversion to straying beyond the 'big two'

12-27-2007, 09:28 PM   #24
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Just a side note... I was & B&H the day of Christmas Eve. They have new special kiosks where all the cameras are available to handle, w/o getting on line and speaking to an agent. Canon and Nikon get their own kiosks, with 4 sides. Pentax got one side, sharing a square with Olympus that got one side too. The Olympus side was packed, shoulder to shoulder; not one person handling the Pentax's...

Just saying with all this, lots of people like the smaller cameras. Not me mind you, but some people do. Me, I'm a big guy with big hands. When I put a 300mm f/2.8 lens on a SLR body, I need something substantial to hold, and balance the lens. I'd never take off the battery grip either...
12-28-2007, 12:48 AM   #25
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I just came from our local camera stores sector (dunno how to call it), as I was just doing my usual window-shopping on camera stuff. Most of the stores there had stocks of D40/D40x's running low. No surprise there.

Here's why: the local Pentax distributors here don't support these merchants at all. Only two store chains are allowed to carry Pentax cameras, and their prices are closer to MSRP than street prices there in the US. Consider this: the K10D kit (from the lone store in the area) was only $150 off the price of a 40D body in other stores.

Of course, people can buy overseas, but the international warranty of Pentax isn't honored by the local distributor here.

Just another reason to push people to get Canon/Nikon.

If it's any consolation, the local Olympus and Sony distributors here also act the same way.
12-28-2007, 01:49 AM   #26
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Interesting Discussion

I find this particular discussing interesting...

I have the distinct experience of regularly handling both the D40x ( my work camera ) and the Pentax K10d ( personal camera ) and really, I actually love both camera's for different reasons.

I love the Nikon's ease of use and simplicity, plus it takes great photos. Plus it is basic enough that if you have the eye and know how to work light it takes great photos as well. I love that I can focus on what I want to accomplish without having too much to worry about camera wise. I don't mind the small size of the camera and actually recommend the D40 or the D40x to friends, family, or anyone else looking to get an SLR ( even over my K10d ), and especially over the Xti ( even though that is proabably a technically better camera ).

I love the K10d because it is powerful and when I need it to do something it will do it and then when I need it to get out of my way it will also do it. I love how Pentax designed a bit of stuff around the K10d to aid the photographer. I also like the K10d because it is simply perfect in my hands. Even more so than the Canon 30d or 40d which I also loved and was considering.

Really I can't say enough positive things about both cameras, and as long as I am shooting with something I am happy because I like to create photographs.

I think if you have the eye and know how to work light and compose you can take great photos no matter what piece of equipment you use. I've seen people with 5 or 6 thousand dollar camera's that don't ever shoot a single inspiring thing because they are too high on how their D3 can shoot in ISO6400 and look like ISO400. That's really a distraction if you ask me.

People talk about different systems, this and that, just get out and take photos with something!!

: )
12-28-2007, 02:58 AM   #27
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Sales - result of marketing - because most people buying lower end dSLRs don't know too much about them or the features.

Bottom line - D40 can only be compared to K100D - K10D is simply in another class.
D40's upper hand is its continuous shooting (3fps forever in 10Mpix JPEGs compared to K100D's 3fps for 3 frames, then 1fps thereafter in 6Mpix JPEGs). In every other category, including camera layout and build, K100D wins hands down. AF on the 18-55 is absolutely shocking, and the 3 AF points on the D40 are really amateurish.

Lens compatibility is a MAJOR issue with the D40 - only lenses with inbuilt AF systems are good for the D40 for AF. Most people buying the D40 WANT AF. I'd never want to be limited this way. Nikon's shame is this camera - D80, D100, D200 - all fantastic bodies, but D40 is a real poor effort. I would never advise anyone to buy a D40 - if they're insisting on Nikon, I'd advise to go for a second hand D70 or just go straight to D80. But then again, the K10D is simply best value for money...
12-28-2007, 03:30 AM   #28
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I started look at the Canon and Nikon variants ... as that's what I saw being sold everywhere here in Australia ... i could actually go too many an electronic store and pick one up and have a look.

I dismissed the Canon quickly as I didn't like how it felt in my hands ... the Nikon was appealing though ... and i was able to use my brother-in-law's one for a day .... it felt OK but still a little small for me. The images looked good on the LCD .... but when downloading them later ... they were really average indeed ... colours were awful. Also what put my off was if I wanted IS lenses ... it was going to cost me an arm and a leg.

I walked into my local camera store and thought I'd ask the guy there (had never been there prior ... and was new to the area anyway ... was an out of the way store in a small arcade).

The guy there asked me why i was looking for the Nikon and Canon ... and handed me both a K100D and K10D to look at ... and also have a play with as well ... also downloaded the images I took on his editing PC there to view as well ... also showed me images he had been taking as well and what he had printed.

To say the least I was impressed with it ... and what was more impressive ... he was willing to beat the prices out there at the time ... and offer added accessories into the package as well. I weny away confused ... but in the end impressed with the features of the Pentax (compared to others) ... and also with the picture quality as well. I was sold.

Thank goodness I went looking for that small photography shop ... I was shown the light ... and am definitely a proud owner of my K10D ... my Brother-in-law is impressed and is thinking of selling his Nikon and switching to Pentax (he always wants the photos I take of his daughter at every family event ... they are framed and all over his house ... so i know he is impressed).
12-28-2007, 04:47 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mechan1k Quote
... my Brother-in-law is impressed and is thinking of selling his Nikon and switching to Pentax (he always wants the photos I take of his daughter at every family event ... they are framed and all over his house ... so i know he is impressed).
This is because of your photography skill instead of k10d's credit ...
12-28-2007, 09:19 AM   #30
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I'm glad I took the time to actually handle as many cameras as possible before taking the plunge into a DSLR.

After having learned photography on the Spotmatic and Canon TL, I was shooting a Nikon F80. I was predisposed towards Nikon, because I liked the feel of the F80 and had some lenses.

By the time I was ready to leap to DSLR, Nikon had cancelled the D50 and replaced it with the D40. Suddenly, my (fairly current) lenses wouldn't autofocus! I still considered the D40, because the sample IQ I saw was nice. But as soon as I picked up the D40, I was shocked how flimsy it felt. The surface finish also didn't give me confidence that it wouldn't slip out of my hands. The grip on my F80 was so good, I used to walk around with it stripped down to a 28mm lens and no camera strap. I would just hold it by the grip, and it was a cool stealth camera that still felt sturdy and reliable. The D50 also felt pretty good, but the D40 wasn't playing in the same league. Stealthy, yes. Also incompatible, cheap, and likely to get dropped.

I considered the D80 -- nice handling camera. But expensive, and a shame that it still wouldn't meter with older lenses. I decided that the D200 was what I really wanted, and that was simply a pipe dream.

I handled every other camera I could find. The OP is right -- it's not easy to find a Pentax to handle. All of the camera stores and big box stores have C/N prominently available to play with. To handle Pentaxes, I went to a tiny Japan Camera outlet, and a little electronics store on Yonge Street that oddly are big Pentax supporters. I ended up with the DL, because I didn't feel I needed the SR on the K100D, and the K10D seemed big compared to my F80. The DL was a sweet price, too... But ergnomics ruled the day.

I will also say that I find ergonomics does have an effect on the quality of my photography. I have very few "keepers" from my time with the F80 and my dad's D50. I found the controls frustrating, and so I tended to keep it in Program mode with matrix exposure. With the DL, the quality of my photos jumped. The camera handled the way I expected it to, and I was more likely to run fully manual and take control of the camera and the pictures. Of course, Nikon/Canon/Pentax etc are all capable of making great images. But are you capable of getting great images out of the camera? I sold a Pentax SF-10 for exactly the same reason -- a cryptic interface that was a hindrance to my staying "in the groove." My current cameras (spotty, MZ-M, DL) work the way I think, and "get out of my way." They also feel good in my hands.

Last edited by filmamigo; 12-28-2007 at 09:29 AM.
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