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01-06-2012, 11:03 AM   #1
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Is the Pixel war over -With the D4 at 16M, why does the K3 need to go to 24?

It seems like when Sony came out with the 24M exmor sensor, that folks assumed that the K5 replacement would use that sensor. The neat thing the 16M does for Nikon D4, is to allow a buffer that holds 200 shots compared to K5's 40 jpeg or 15 RAW. D4 also weighs 3 lbs and cost $6K list.

Keeping the same 16M for the K5 successor would also allow more money to be spent on other features. Of course its too late now for Pentax to change whatever they cooked up for a replacement. Just saying... 2012 will be an interesting year.

01-06-2012, 11:15 AM   #2
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because it's a different market segment. the D800 is rumoured to be 36mp at over 2 grand less than the D4 as well.
01-06-2012, 11:53 AM   #3
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For the past several years, people have been thinking, "ah! the pixel war is over!" Hmm... I don't think it really is. Like Eddie says, the d4 is in a different market segment.
However, the desire for higher resolution pictures is not dead (e.g., D800).
01-06-2012, 12:07 PM   #4
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Resolution is only half the story when it comes to good pictures- the other half is speed and clarity, and that's where the D4 (and 1Dx) will shine.

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01-06-2012, 02:32 PM   #5
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McNally claims the images from the D4 are smooth...which implies they really got close to 16-bit per color resolution...

It's roughly 1 stop better than the D3s which is 1 stop better than the D700.
01-06-2012, 04:56 PM   #6
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I never beleived APSC would go higher than 12 milion pixels after the D300 came out, At least without sacrificing high ISO quality.
There are 24 milion pixels now, but as expected, I wouldnt touch one because awful above just 400 ISO.
Then comes the 16 milion pixel with not just as good high ISO performance but actualy considerably better.
In all honnesty, very few people actualy need more detail or performance than 12 milion pixels. I was certainly more than happy, and so were my clients.
Ive bought the K5 not for the extra detail or bigger files but for the actual improved performance at higher ISO and quality overall.
The K5 gives me better and sharper image quality than my old RZ67 medium format camera.
Its amazing !!!! I would never have beleived it in a milion years !
To my mind... cameras have overtaken the lenses now. Few lenses can come close to resolving the detail that this new generation of cameras are capable of.
I would like to see more efort and money put into better glass and better relibility etc.
01-06-2012, 05:20 PM   #7
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The pixel war will end when consumers stop buy cars because of the model standing next to it...
01-06-2012, 05:27 PM   #8
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Well when it comes to geting a full frame sensor, it is maybe also partly of having no choice but....

When I look at 1Dx and D4, then these are hi-iso performing fast sports- and newscamera's. The real pro-market. Where Pentax has next to nothing in marketshare.

When I look at D800 and 5DMkIII wich supposedly get a 36mp and 32mp sensor. These camera's are for studio-use. For professional and hi-end amateur use. For studio Pentax also has 645D as a professional camera.

When I look at A77 and Nex 7 then I don't see an advantage in using that APS-C sensor over the current 16mp sensor. So I hope we stick to the current K-5 sensor for APS-C.

Then there is the talk about the FF 24mp sensor that would be in A99 and Nex 9. This is maybe a good sensor for use in Pentax'es first FF camera. Good hi-iso performance (better then K-5 already is) and still good size of files. Maybe it is the only sensor for Pentax to get their hands on.

So For FF I would prefer 16mp > 18mp > 24mp > 32mp > 36mp but for now it just would be good to have that FF Pentax K-mount camera in shops. So we can start to worry about what we would like for the next camera to be.

01-06-2012, 05:45 PM   #9
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I've seen test where someone uses a good quality sensor that was use in point and shoot camera and compare it with a ASP-C sensor.
The thing was that the point and shoot sensor had more pixels on the surface and the amount of noise per pixel was also higher but... the amount of noise over the average area was not worse it was actually better in that test.
The P&S had captured more details then the APS-C sensor when the APS-C was cropped down to the level of the P&S.
So more pixels is not always negative.

I believe that manufactures need to get the balance right so far Pentax has done quite well if i may say so.
The sensors in the Kr and the K5 looks to be just right if you ask me, they have a good balance.
In the future we will probably see higher pixel counts but the processing speed will be better and the cost of memory cards will also go down so relatively speaking we only gain.

I've tired to find the test but was unable too, might make my own example.
01-07-2012, 03:03 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yamanobori Quote
The pixel war will end when consumers stop buy cars because of the model standing next to it...
The pixel war will slow down a bit as fabs catch up with Moore's Law, which has yet to be repealed, which was even extended in yesterday's news on nanotube circuitry.

So, the war: A truce will be declared. All parties will escalate their armaments. When the next batch of bombs are ready, hostilities will resume. Yes, and televised live.

But the war has another front, not based on MY MEGAPICKLES ARE BIGGER THAN YOUR MEGAPICKLES. The other theatre of combat is: computers. 24-30-36-42-50 megapickle images need serious horsepower to process, both in-camera and on the desktop / laptop / wherever. And CPU-makers don't seem to be delivering faster processors or platforms. Markets are more for small, light, Web- and video-enabled, but low-powered systems. Gigapickle cameras need appropriate workstations at the right price points. I can't process .PEFs on my decade-old VAIO mini-laptop, not if they're to be finished before the heat death of the universe.

So, the war: Armies travel on their bellies, said Napoleon. Logistics rule. Until the next batch of giga-workstations can feed the troops, the megapickle truce will hold.

Last edited by RioRico; 01-07-2012 at 03:08 AM.
01-07-2012, 08:24 AM - 1 Like   #11
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Here's a picture I put together and posted a while back when discussing the merits of more megapixels. For anybody shooting in the studio, more resolution is always a good thing. And as the image below demonstrates, the extra pixels in the new 24MP Sony APS-C sensor are not just empty pixels. There is a real and significant increase in resolution/detail.

Pay particular attention to the words "Pure Brewed", and how the white spaces between the horizontal black lines are rendered. Also look at the seal, and the tiny text above and below it, and how it becomes much more legible as the megapixels increase.

And here's the full image Imaging Resource test-shot that the crops were taken from:

Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 01-07-2012 at 08:54 AM.
01-07-2012, 08:53 AM   #12
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Thats what is termed horses for courses !!!! The 16 million pixel pentax and nikon is slightly better than the 18 cannon at higher ISO while the cannon has slightly higher definition, but making them excellent all round cameras capable of producing superb pics
in any enviroment. The 24 milion pixel Sony would be the choice of weapon for the studio
and landscape work. Personly though.... If I wanted or needed higher quality than the 16 or 18 milion pixel I would opt for FF.
For those that dont need the all roundness though and only work from the studio or landscapes then obviously the Sony is perfect.

Last edited by westmill; 01-07-2012 at 09:01 AM. Reason: add info
01-07-2012, 09:03 AM   #13
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I also would prefer development to go towards better lenses (esp. mechanically) and durability, as well as better manual focus ability. My Leica M9 is 19MP FF, and I tend to use a 35mm Summicron on it most of the time. That means many shots I crop agressively, because I know the result will hold up well, so I take the shot rather than change lenses for it. Part of this is the rangefinder focusing, as I nail focus more on the M9 than with my K-5. The K-5 autofocus is pretty good - but isn't quite in the same league as manual rangefinder (especially in weak light), especially when cropping - even though the K-5 16MP is close to the M9. The M9 doesn't have the high ISO capability of the K-5, but can still do stunning low-light work with good technique. Coming from a film background where 400 was high ISO, I don't need anything more than the K-5.
So I'd like a 16-18 MP FF Pentax, with better viewfinder for manual focus, as it is still simpler for me to just focus on the object I want than to tell an autofocus mechanism what to do. I guess I should try an aftermarket screen on my K-5, and see how that helps manual focus.
01-07-2012, 09:48 AM   #14
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I would buy a 24 megapixel Pentax DSLR if they were able to attain the right mix of noise suppression and detail preservation like they did with the K-5. It would be really something to see if pentax was able to take that 24mp Sony sensor and produce better results than Sony's own cameras do. Which is essentially was what both they and Nikon did respectively with the Sony's 16mp sensor.
01-07-2012, 09:51 AM   #15
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I think MP is the least that Pentax has to worry consider there are other genuine issues to tackle. Also, would you feel any better if the D4 had the same pixel density as the K3?

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