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01-17-2012, 04:25 PM   #226
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
.

In post 163, you were addressing alohadave's:

"If I stand 10 feet from a person, my perspective does not change if I crop the picture from one lens or use two different lenses."

And he was right, as the images I posted illustrate. You expanded the concept of perspective to talk about a different aspect of linear perspective, how fast radial lines seem to converge in a cropped image, but that's not what Dave was concerned with, nor are most photographers when they talk about maintaining the same perspective by not moving, and cropping or using a different focal length. I happened to know what he meant (perspective as it relates to object distance,) because I see this question constantly


.
And then you are not talking about perspective, you are simply talking about the ratio of image sizes. Two different things.

01-17-2012, 04:29 PM   #227
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Please point me to an online perspective calculator.
With DOF, we can plug-in the numbers (frame size, focal length, aperture, lens-subject distance, COC, etc) and compute a DOF range. What is the parallel for perspective? What usable numbers would a perspective function return?


And how are those ratios useful when shooting in the field? What are the numerical factors that can be applied to perspective? What are 'greater' and 'lesser' perspective? Show us the numbers, please.
Are you just trying to prove you don't know anything about perspective?
01-17-2012, 04:31 PM   #228
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
It's your point of view, keep your camera level (not pointing up or down) and the lines will be straight.
That's why some use shift lenses.
And that will change the perspective of the building.

You can try to twist my words, but that really is not an argument.
01-17-2012, 04:40 PM   #229
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yamanobori Quote
And then you are not talking about perspective, you are simply talking about the ratio of image sizes. Two different things.
From Photography on the Net:

"...For the discussion in this article, the definition of perspective that we will use is "the size relationships of various elements in an image that are different distances from the camera".

From Digital Photogaphy Tips Online:

"...Perspective in photography refers to the relationship between the objects in an image. Perspective is about the objects relative position, size, scale and space between them."

There are many other sources, Luminous Landscape, etc...

As I said before, the fundamental problem in this part of the thread is that folks are using their own definitions for perspective, or more accurately focusing on the different aspects of perspective that they're concerned about.

Dave and most others are usually talking about what I was describing, because that can have a big impact on your photography. A lot of new shooters think that they can 'achieve' another focal length simply by moving back or forward... it's only later that they realize that the change in perspective caused by moving position altered the background relationship in a way they didn't want.

Remember that this started out as a sub-discussion about how "moving the camera changes perspective", and what that actually means to your image.


.

.


Last edited by jsherman999; 01-17-2012 at 04:48 PM.
01-17-2012, 06:48 PM   #230
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Used to smoke Winston, myself. If they were good enough for Fred Flinstone, they were good enough for me.
Any time we traveled in the States, the very first thing I did when we crossed the border was buy a pack of Marlboroughs. Loved smoking those.
01-17-2012, 07:02 PM   #231
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
From Photography on the Net:

"...For the discussion in this article, the definition of perspective that we will use is "the size relationships of various elements in an image that are different distances from the camera".

From Digital Photogaphy Tips Online:

"...Perspective in photography refers to the relationship between the objects in an image. Perspective is about the objects relative position, size, scale and space between them."

There are many other sources, Luminous Landscape, etc...

As I said before, the fundamental problem in this part of the thread is that folks are using their own definitions for perspective, or more accurately focusing on the different aspects of perspective that they're concerned about.

Dave and most others are usually talking about what I was describing, because that can have a big impact on your photography. A lot of new shooters think that they can 'achieve' another focal length simply by moving back or forward... it's only later that they realize that the change in perspective caused by moving position altered the background relationship in a way they didn't want.

Remember that this started out as a sub-discussion about how "moving the camera changes perspective", and what that actually means to your image.


.

.

There are a few kinds of Perspective and the one you quote is Positional Perspective and is somewhat related to a medieval/oriental concept of perspective in that overlapping objects determine distance from the viewer. Linear Perspective is the form I've been discussing and I think most other people have as well.
01-17-2012, 07:38 PM   #232
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I'd love to see more FF vs APS-C images in this thread.
01-18-2012, 03:53 AM   #233
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Please point me to an online perspective calculator.
With DOF, we can plug-in the numbers (frame size, focal length, aperture, lens-subject distance, COC, etc) and compute a DOF range. What is the parallel for perspective? What usable numbers would a perspective function return?


And how are those ratios useful when shooting in the field? What are the numerical factors that can be applied to perspective? What are 'greater' and 'lesser' perspective? Show us the numbers, please.
QuoteOriginally posted by Yamanobori Quote
Are you just trying to prove you don't know anything about perspective?
Sorry, wrong answer. Or maybe it's the right answer -- it shows that you can't provide civil answers to civil questions. Congratulations, you are now the second person on my PFC sh!tlist. Bye bye.

01-18-2012, 04:23 AM   #234
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Sorry, wrong answer. Or maybe it's the right answer -- it shows that you can't provide civil answers to civil questions. Congratulations, you are now the second person on my PFC sh!tlist. Bye bye.
I want to see you add an 'h' to your name.. just for fun. Can we take bets?
01-18-2012, 02:13 PM   #235
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I want to see you add an 'h' to your name.. just for fun. Can we take bets?
For a couple weeks after the takeover announcement I was "RioRicoh, the user formerly known as Pentaxio Smurf" but then I straightened up.

Last edited by RioRico; 01-18-2012 at 03:31 PM.
01-18-2012, 02:23 PM   #236
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
For a couple week after the takeover announcement I was "RioRicoh, the user formerly known as Pentaxio Smurf" but then I straightened up.
Damn I missed it.. I was sure you must have thought of it though.
01-18-2012, 04:28 PM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
There are a few kinds of Perspective and the one you quote is Positional Perspective and is somewhat related to a medieval/oriental concept of perspective in that overlapping objects determine distance from the viewer. Linear Perspective is the form I've been discussing and I think most other people have as well.
Keeping the same position and changing focal lengths does not change linear perspective either.
01-18-2012, 04:59 PM   #238
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yamanobori Quote
And that will change the perspective of the building.

You can try to twist my words, but that really is not an argument.
yes it will, shift lens will not correct the perspective it actually makes it unnatural.
So you were correct on that and I said nothing to disprove that.
Why so serious?
01-18-2012, 06:02 PM   #239
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
Keeping the same position and changing focal lengths does not change linear perspective either.
The perspective DOES change even though the angles are the same. When you change lenses you are interacting with the environment by artificially scaling the viewer in relation to the scene. Perspective is an relative thing. Just because the angles are fixed doesn't mean perspective is not changing.

[edit] Clearly, when you change lenses you change the projection onto a 2D surface. That's what linear perspective is.. a projection.

Last edited by bossa; 01-18-2012 at 06:08 PM.
01-19-2012, 04:16 PM   #240
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
The perspective DOES change even though the angles are the same. When you change lenses you are interacting with the environment by artificially scaling the viewer in relation to the scene. Perspective is an relative thing. Just because the angles are fixed doesn't mean perspective is not changing.
So, cropping is a change of perspective?
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