K100 D - Something is moving inside the body

bazin · 12-23-2006, 07:00 AM

Hi guys,

I am experiencing a strange thing with my new K100 D - when I change orientation of a camera from vertical to horizontal or vice versa I can feel something moving inside the camera. I happens regardless of SR being switched on/off, batteries in/out, focused or not etc. The only moment this is not happening is when the camera is CCD cleaning mode. Any idea whether this is supposed to be this way? K100 D owners, are you experiencing the same thig?

Thank you.

foxglove · 12-23-2006, 07:04 AM

A lot of other K100 owners have asked the same question. Mine does it too. As far as I know, it's just part of the SR mechanism, nothing to worry about.

Julie

**rprii** · 12-23-2006, 07:46 AM

I do not recall seeing this issue regarding the K100D. However, it has been fairly well documented regarding the K10D. Further, as the following thread will detail, I have a noticeable noise/movement when using the internal flash.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/1635-k10d-noise-in...ash-issue.html

Actually, have realized that after every shot . . . there is a perceptible movement whether using SR or not . . . slightly reminiscent of the film transport noise/movement on a 35mm slr.

My response from Pentax was to send them the body for examination. Ha . . . that will take weeks . . . after the Holiday I plan on trying to get my dealer to replace the body.

Have a great holiday!!!

**jfdavis58** · 12-23-2006, 07:56 AM

Shoot a card-full of images in both landscape and portrait orientation; download to the PC. View them with windows explorer as thumbnails if JPEG; open them with an application that provides a 'light table' type view otherwise-pentax photo browser or silkypix.

Notice anything special? How do you think they got that way?

bazin · 12-23-2006, 08:10 AM

The issue I'm talking about is more on the mechanical side than connected with functioning of the camera, as I have described it in the first post. It feels as if there was something placed loose/not locked inside the body. It's the first time i'm experiencing such a thing with a camera and that's why I'm asking. It doesn't seem to have any influence on quality of pictures though - I was just worried whether I got a faulty piece or whether it's common with K100 D.

Ivan Glisin · 12-23-2006, 09:20 AM

You think it is orientation sensor? Possible, if it is mechanical (could be liquid or more likely piezoelectric with no moving parts).

But I remember someone posted at PDreview official explanation issued by Pentax: it is SR mechanism that is ALWAYS floating. If SR is off at the moment of exposure magnets "freeze" the sensor; if SR is on magnets move it to compensate for camera shake. But there is no "inactive and locked" state -- no power and sensor moves around.

This makes me think this is to be expected: with SR off and 5sec shutter speed sensor should be locked and mechanical noise would be consequently eliminated. I have *istDS so I can not verify this. Anyone willing to try and post results?

**jfdavis58** · 12-23-2006, 10:40 AM

Exactly, a pair (or more) of kinetic sensors. Basically a weight on a stick, or more properly a weight on one end of a fulcrum. Sensing elements on the opposite end. It's sensitive to both orientation and motion-mechanically they are intrinsically related.

One feels the sensors during a rotation as in moving from horizontal to vertical orientation because the sensors are bouncing against their stops. I suppose a severe twist could damage the sensors but normal use is seldom severe. We feel the bounce because dampening is not required-it might actually interfere-so the weighted end bounces against the stops on the ends of it's travel. The nature of such a twist is very low frequency, to dampen this would require some form of gyroscopic device.

The 'weighted stick' is particularly sensitive to small vibrations as in hand shake. Horizontal and vertical components of such shake are not symmetric--typically more vertical than horizontal-so determining camera frame orientation is both necessary for SR and a usable byproduct is frame rotation information. Rather simple mechanical engineering.

trog100 · 12-23-2006, 06:14 PM

i have seen a k100 make a loud noise and a positive kick in the hand in certain conditions.. i think the sr mechanism is quite solid and chunky.. least i hope so.. he he

trog

foxglove · 12-24-2006, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by jfdavis58

Shoot a card-full of images in both landscape and portrait orientation; download to the PC. View them with windows explorer as thumbnails if JPEG; open them with an application that provides a 'light table' type view otherwise-pentax photo browser or silkypix.

Notice anything special? How do you think they got that way?

I just happened to be out with the K100 today (finally - sick in bed for a week!) and just happened to take pictures in both orientations, so I downloaded them, and...

...I noticed nothing special. All landscape orientation. That's in Pentax photo browser, Adobe Bridge and, as jpegs, Windows explorer. Unless this is something in the firmware update, nope, there's no orientation sensor. Sigh.... Not that I'm surprised, there's nothing in the manual and you'd think that they'd rave about that sort of a feature.

Julie

**mtngal** · 12-25-2006, 05:36 PM

The K10 introduced the orientation sensor - the K100 does not have it. I hadn't noticed the slight movement of something in the K100 until yesterday, when I was putting it away. Guess I'm rather oblivious to such things because there's been no change to the camera in any way.

12-23-2006, 07:00 AM	#1
bazin New Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Slovakia Posts: 2	K100 D - Something is moving inside the body Hi guys, I am experiencing a strange thing with my new K100 D - when I change orientation of a camera from vertical to horizontal or vice versa I can feel something moving inside the camera. I happens regardless of SR being switched on/off, batteries in/out, focused or not etc. The only moment this is not happening is when the camera is CCD cleaning mode. Any idea whether this is supposed to be this way? K100 D owners, are you experiencing the same thig? Thank you.

12-23-2006, 07:46 AM	#3
rprii Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 178	K100D or K10D?? I do not recall seeing this issue regarding the K100D. However, it has been fairly well documented regarding the K10D. Further, as the following thread will detail, I have a noticeable noise/movement when using the internal flash. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/1635-k10d-noise-in...ash-issue.html Actually, have realized that after every shot . . . there is a perceptible movement whether using SR or not . . . slightly reminiscent of the film transport noise/movement on a 35mm slr. My response from Pentax was to send them the body for examination. Ha . . . that will take weeks . . . after the Holiday I plan on trying to get my dealer to replace the body. Have a great holiday!!!

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12-23-2006, 07:04 AM	#2
foxglove Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Atlantic Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,049	A lot of other K100 owners have asked the same question. Mine does it too. As far as I know, it's just part of the SR mechanism, nothing to worry about. Julie

12-23-2006, 07:56 AM	#4
jfdavis58 Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 13 S 0357397-3884316 Photos: Gallery Posts: 887	Shoot a card-full of images in both landscape and portrait orientation; download to the PC. View them with windows explorer as thumbnails if JPEG; open them with an application that provides a 'light table' type view otherwise-pentax photo browser or silkypix. Notice anything special? How do you think they got that way?

12-23-2006, 08:10 AM	#5
bazin New Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Slovakia Posts: 2 Original Poster	The issue I'm talking about is more on the mechanical side than connected with functioning of the camera, as I have described it in the first post. It feels as if there was something placed loose/not locked inside the body. It's the first time i'm experiencing such a thing with a camera and that's why I'm asking. It doesn't seem to have any influence on quality of pictures though - I was just worried whether I got a faulty piece or whether it's common with K100 D.

12-23-2006, 09:20 AM	#6
Ivan Glisin Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belgrade Posts: 656	You think it is orientation sensor? Possible, if it is mechanical (could be liquid or more likely piezoelectric with no moving parts). But I remember someone posted at PDreview official explanation issued by Pentax: it is SR mechanism that is ALWAYS floating. If SR is off at the moment of exposure magnets "freeze" the sensor; if SR is on magnets move it to compensate for camera shake. But there is no "inactive and locked" state -- no power and sensor moves around. This makes me think this is to be expected: with SR off and 5sec shutter speed sensor should be locked and mechanical noise would be consequently eliminated. I have *istDS so I can not verify this. Anyone willing to try and post results?

12-23-2006, 10:40 AM	#7
jfdavis58 Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 13 S 0357397-3884316 Photos: Gallery Posts: 887	Exactly, a pair (or more) of kinetic sensors. Basically a weight on a stick, or more properly a weight on one end of a fulcrum. Sensing elements on the opposite end. It's sensitive to both orientation and motion-mechanically they are intrinsically related. One feels the sensors during a rotation as in moving from horizontal to vertical orientation because the sensors are bouncing against their stops. I suppose a severe twist could damage the sensors but normal use is seldom severe. We feel the bounce because dampening is not required-it might actually interfere-so the weighted end bounces against the stops on the ends of it's travel. The nature of such a twist is very low frequency, to dampen this would require some form of gyroscopic device. The 'weighted stick' is particularly sensitive to small vibrations as in hand shake. Horizontal and vertical components of such shake are not symmetric--typically more vertical than horizontal-so determining camera frame orientation is both necessary for SR and a usable byproduct is frame rotation information. Rather simple mechanical engineering.

12-23-2006, 06:14 PM	#8
trog100 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: UK Posts: 642	i have seen a k100 make a loud noise and a positive kick in the hand in certain conditions.. i think the sr mechanism is quite solid and chunky.. least i hope so.. he he trog

12-24-2006, 02:39 PM	#9
foxglove Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Atlantic Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,049	Originally posted by jfdavis58 Shoot a card-full of images in both landscape and portrait orientation; download to the PC. View them with windows explorer as thumbnails if JPEG; open them with an application that provides a 'light table' type view otherwise-pentax photo browser or silkypix. Notice anything special? How do you think they got that way? I just happened to be out with the K100 today (finally - sick in bed for a week!) and just happened to take pictures in both orientations, so I downloaded them, and... ...I noticed nothing special. All landscape orientation. That's in Pentax photo browser, Adobe Bridge and, as jpegs, Windows explorer. Unless this is something in the firmware update, nope, there's no orientation sensor. Sigh.... Not that I'm surprised, there's nothing in the manual and you'd think that they'd rave about that sort of a feature. Julie

12-25-2006, 05:36 PM	#10
mtngal Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Wherever I’m Parked Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,003	The K10 introduced the orientation sensor - the K100 does not have it. I hadn't noticed the slight movement of something in the K100 until yesterday, when I was putting it away. Guess I'm rather oblivious to such things because there's been no change to the camera in any way.

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