Contrast Highlight and Shadow Adjustment

Yosemite · 01-08-2012, 04:19 PM

I have been experimenting with the Custom Image settings with my K-7 and have a couple of questions about Contrast Highlight Adjustment and Contrast Shadow Adjustment. When do other users change these? What effects do you see? How are these different than using the Highlight and Shadow Adjustment in the D-Range setting?

To my eye, increasing Contrast Shadow Adjustment opens up (lightens) the shadow areas a little, reducing contrast.
Contrast Highlight Adjustment seems to pull down highlights (darken) when low, and brightens just barely when set higher (+4).
Do these functions do anything different to the image than what happens with D-Range settings? Is there any effect on noise with either or both?
Thanks.

amoringello · 01-08-2012, 04:47 PM

I see almost no difference.
Even when I do, there is certainly no real benefit that makes the several second wait between shots worthwhile.
I prefer to do such processing after the fact, and only on photos that I want to use.
Beyond that, I have not used those enough to notice any real observations on how it affects noise.

asp1880 · 01-09-2012, 03:26 AM

Those two settings have very subtle effects. They are quite hard to understand and consequenty difficult to use.
I believe they adjust contrast in the highlight and/or shadow area by adding additional "kinks" in the contrast curve,
just as the regular contrast adjustment works by steepening or flattening the central "kink" in the contrast S-curve.
These two settings in question just control their respective kink in the highlight and shadow portion.

I guess you could use all three contrast adjustmenst in concert to put contrast where you want it for a particular
motive. For instance, to bring out lots of detail in the clouds, you would reduce shadow and regular contrast, and
increase highlight contrast, thereby making a steep and tall kink in the highlight part of the contrast S-curve.

The D-range settings do something else. Highlight protection lowers exposure by one stop behind the scenes and
lifts everything except the highlights one stop in processing.
Shadow protection just lifts the shadows in processing.

Regards,
--Anders.

Anvh · 01-09-2012, 09:07 AM

These settings are probably handy for JPG but for RAW you can do that at home most likely.
You can adjust shadow correction with RAW file in camera so that clearly shows it's a post processing effect.

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-09-2012, 02:48 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Yosemite

I have been experimenting with the Custom Image settings with my K-7 and have a couple of questions about Contrast Highlight Adjustment and Contrast Shadow Adjustment. When do other users change these? What effects do you see? How are these different than using the Highlight and Shadow Adjustment in the D-Range setting?

To my eye, increasing Contrast Shadow Adjustment opens up (lightens) the shadow areas a little, reducing contrast.
Contrast Highlight Adjustment seems to pull down highlights (darken) when low, and brightens just barely when set higher (+4).
Do these functions do anything different to the image than what happens with D-Range settings? Is there any effect on noise with either or both?
Thanks.

what you see is what they do, maximum adjustment reduces the contrast slightly, overall the dynamic range in the histogram is about 5 stops in the sweet area between 25 and 225, but with these enabled it is about 7 stops. It really just saves you from shooting RAW and doing a lot of PP later

zosxavius · 01-10-2012, 12:24 PM

It also bumps the iso and adds noise. That's why base iso goes to 200 when you use it. Personally, I would shoot critical stuff in raw and post process, but that's me. If I just need a bunch of jpegs and shadows are killing me I will turn on the shadow correction. I usually leave highlight correction on most of the time. The slowdown doesn't bother me much.

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-10-2012, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by zosxavius

It also bumps the iso and adds noise. That's why base iso goes to 200 when you use it. Personally, I would shoot critical stuff in raw and post process, but that's me. If I just need a bunch of jpegs and shadows are killing me I will turn on the shadow correction. I usually leave highlight correction on most of the time. The slowdown doesn't bother me much.

In all reality, with both the K5 and K7 the shadow and highlight correction, as well as other JPEG adjustments, when used corerectly eliminate the need for RAW for most situations.

I have always shot JPEG but found at times withthe K10, that it was overly contrasty, or at best difficult to get great wide dynamic range when needed, but with the K7 and now K5 it is a snap.

I shoot JPEG amost exclusively, nad raw as a safegaurd, using the RAW button when I think the shot will be a real important one.

zosxavius · 01-10-2012, 04:19 PM

Its funny. I'm finding myself liking the jpeg engine on this camera so much that I end up shooting jpegs a lot. Especially for quick portraits of friends and what not. You get a great deal of control over jpeg on this camera. Every other camera I've used I couldn't stand the onboard jpeg engine. This really changes that. The ability to process raw in camera is sooooooooo beautiful I might add!!!

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-11-2012, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by zosxavius

Its funny. I'm finding myself liking the jpeg engine on this camera so much that I end up shooting jpegs a lot. Especially for quick portraits of friends and what not. You get a great deal of control over jpeg on this camera. Every other camera I've used I couldn't stand the onboard jpeg engine. This really changes that. The ability to process raw in camera is sooooooooo beautiful I might add!!!

I spent the time and effort to learn how to set the Jpeg settings long ago and have been a strong jpeg supporter in the forums. When I explained my approach I was "accused" of "pre-post processing". The point really is jpeg settings are no different than picking the right film for the right conditions, except there is no longer the need to backwind mid roll

zosxavius · 01-11-2012, 05:16 PM

Pre post processing???? LOL!!!! REALLY??

Uh....you still have to process from raw to. Jpeg people....changing the settings is somehow cheating or not straight enough???? Lol...I can't wait until I run into someone like that here.

zosxavius · 01-11-2012, 05:21 PM

Don't get me wrong...I'm a die hard raw shooter....but to be honest...the jpegs look awesome in black and white and even the noise looks a bit like film. I'm really impressed with how much they hit it out of the ballpark on the jpeg engine. I wish some other manufacturers would take not....*cough*panasonic...canon*cough*

zosxavius · 01-11-2012, 05:22 PM

Its really great for some quick portraits for friends...take some quick pics, drop. The card in the computer and upload. To facebook....

01-08-2012, 04:19 PM	#1
Yosemite New Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: AR Posts: 22	Contrast Highlight and Shadow Adjustment I have been experimenting with the Custom Image settings with my K-7 and have a couple of questions about Contrast Highlight Adjustment and Contrast Shadow Adjustment. When do other users change these? What effects do you see? How are these different than using the Highlight and Shadow Adjustment in the D-Range setting? To my eye, increasing Contrast Shadow Adjustment opens up (lightens) the shadow areas a little, reducing contrast. Contrast Highlight Adjustment seems to pull down highlights (darken) when low, and brightens just barely when set higher (+4). Do these functions do anything different to the image than what happens with D-Range settings? Is there any effect on noise with either or both? Thanks.

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01-08-2012, 04:47 PM	#2
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562	I see almost no difference. Even when I do, there is certainly no real benefit that makes the several second wait between shots worthwhile. I prefer to do such processing after the fact, and only on photos that I want to use. Beyond that, I have not used those enough to notice any real observations on how it affects noise.

01-09-2012, 03:26 AM	#3
asp1880 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Lyngby, Copenhagen Photos: Albums Posts: 742	Those two settings have very subtle effects. They are quite hard to understand and consequenty difficult to use. I believe they adjust contrast in the highlight and/or shadow area by adding additional "kinks" in the contrast curve, just as the regular contrast adjustment works by steepening or flattening the central "kink" in the contrast S-curve. These two settings in question just control their respective kink in the highlight and shadow portion. I guess you could use all three contrast adjustmenst in concert to put contrast where you want it for a particular motive. For instance, to bring out lots of detail in the clouds, you would reduce shadow and regular contrast, and increase highlight contrast, thereby making a steep and tall kink in the highlight part of the contrast S-curve. The D-range settings do something else. Highlight protection lowers exposure by one stop behind the scenes and lifts everything except the highlights one stop in processing. Shadow protection just lifts the shadows in processing. Regards, --Anders.

01-09-2012, 09:07 AM	#4
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	These settings are probably handy for JPG but for RAW you can do that at home most likely. You can adjust shadow correction with RAW file in camera so that clearly shows it's a post processing effect.

01-09-2012, 02:48 PM - 1 Like	#5
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	Originally posted by Yosemite I have been experimenting with the Custom Image settings with my K-7 and have a couple of questions about Contrast Highlight Adjustment and Contrast Shadow Adjustment. When do other users change these? What effects do you see? How are these different than using the Highlight and Shadow Adjustment in the D-Range setting? To my eye, increasing Contrast Shadow Adjustment opens up (lightens) the shadow areas a little, reducing contrast. Contrast Highlight Adjustment seems to pull down highlights (darken) when low, and brightens just barely when set higher (+4). Do these functions do anything different to the image than what happens with D-Range settings? Is there any effect on noise with either or both? Thanks. what you see is what they do, maximum adjustment reduces the contrast slightly, overall the dynamic range in the histogram is about 5 stops in the sweet area between 25 and 225, but with these enabled it is about 7 stops. It really just saves you from shooting RAW and doing a lot of PP later

01-10-2012, 12:24 PM	#6
zosxavius Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Somewhere, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 458	It also bumps the iso and adds noise. That's why base iso goes to 200 when you use it. Personally, I would shoot critical stuff in raw and post process, but that's me. If I just need a bunch of jpegs and shadows are killing me I will turn on the shadow correction. I usually leave highlight correction on most of the time. The slowdown doesn't bother me much.

01-10-2012, 03:59 PM	#7
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	Originally posted by zosxavius It also bumps the iso and adds noise. That's why base iso goes to 200 when you use it. Personally, I would shoot critical stuff in raw and post process, but that's me. If I just need a bunch of jpegs and shadows are killing me I will turn on the shadow correction. I usually leave highlight correction on most of the time. The slowdown doesn't bother me much. In all reality, with both the K5 and K7 the shadow and highlight correction, as well as other JPEG adjustments, when used corerectly eliminate the need for RAW for most situations. I have always shot JPEG but found at times withthe K10, that it was overly contrasty, or at best difficult to get great wide dynamic range when needed, but with the K7 and now K5 it is a snap. I shoot JPEG amost exclusively, nad raw as a safegaurd, using the RAW button when I think the shot will be a real important one.

01-10-2012, 04:19 PM	#8
zosxavius Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Somewhere, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 458	Its funny. I'm finding myself liking the jpeg engine on this camera so much that I end up shooting jpegs a lot. Especially for quick portraits of friends and what not. You get a great deal of control over jpeg on this camera. Every other camera I've used I couldn't stand the onboard jpeg engine. This really changes that. The ability to process raw in camera is sooooooooo beautiful I might add!!!

01-11-2012, 05:13 PM	#9
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	Originally posted by zosxavius Its funny. I'm finding myself liking the jpeg engine on this camera so much that I end up shooting jpegs a lot. Especially for quick portraits of friends and what not. You get a great deal of control over jpeg on this camera. Every other camera I've used I couldn't stand the onboard jpeg engine. This really changes that. The ability to process raw in camera is sooooooooo beautiful I might add!!! I spent the time and effort to learn how to set the Jpeg settings long ago and have been a strong jpeg supporter in the forums. When I explained my approach I was "accused" of "pre-post processing". The point really is jpeg settings are no different than picking the right film for the right conditions, except there is no longer the need to backwind mid roll

01-11-2012, 05:16 PM	#10
zosxavius Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Somewhere, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 458	Pre post processing???? LOL!!!! REALLY?? Uh....you still have to process from raw to. Jpeg people....changing the settings is somehow cheating or not straight enough???? Lol...I can't wait until I run into someone like that here.

01-11-2012, 05:21 PM	#11
zosxavius Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Somewhere, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 458	Don't get me wrong...I'm a die hard raw shooter....but to be honest...the jpegs look awesome in black and white and even the noise looks a bit like film. I'm really impressed with how much they hit it out of the ballpark on the jpeg engine. I wish some other manufacturers would take not....coughpanasonic...canoncough

01-11-2012, 05:22 PM	#12
zosxavius Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Somewhere, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 458	Its really great for some quick portraits for friends...take some quick pics, drop. The card in the computer and upload. To facebook....