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12-28-2007, 09:20 AM   #16
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I'd like to say advanced amateur, but just barely. I'm currently on Vista (on a very very beefy PC). I'm using Lightroom and CS3 extended, although 95% of my work is in Lightroom. Its elegant design and easy, intuitive workflow and controls make ideal for my needs. I swear by Lightroom.

I'm shooting with a K10D.

12-28-2007, 09:35 AM   #17
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I have tried an extensive selection of image editing softwares--everything mentioned here and many, many more. While I find Yvon's use of the term "Holy Grail" a bit of a stretch-I'm Roman Catholic, terms like 'industry leader' or 'pre-eminent' and similar certainly apply.

It's nothing similar to the 'Nikon/Canon trap' you describe although that is a typical 'excuse' or 'reason' formulated by the uninitiated or under-funded and similar. This, of course, begs the question"Why, then, is Photoshop the industry leader, why is it pre-eminent?"

Some of the reason may, of course, be tied to Adobe's standing in the 'print' industry; but I think that is merely a by-product or symptom-if you will. However, it does provide the best hint as to why. Care to make a stab at guessing the answer?



QuoteOriginally posted by JCSullivan Quote
Yvonne, I don't know how you can say that, unless you have tried ALL the rest.

You have fell into the same trap as those others who will buy a Nikon or a Canon because it makes them not only a better photographer but a good photographer - all crap, as far as I'm concerned.

Yesterday we were refered to a mag. article that said Pentax is getting a Porche whilst paying for a Chrysler. Getting CSx is getting a FERRARI when you only need a Mini Minor
12-28-2007, 09:38 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by JCSullivan Quote
You have fell into the same trap as those others who will buy a Nikon or a Canon because it makes them not only a better photographer but a good photographer
It's funny. I just had a discussion with my big brother (Canon EOS 350D owner) and he claimed that HE can make the same HIGH Quality pictures as a Professional Photographer (there was one on TV yesterday where they showed how they made a nude calendar for 2008).

He basically stated that with the same equipment as the Pro used he could make the same quality photo's.

Not needing to mind the lighting since the guys with the big foldable mirrors would take care of the perfect lighting for him (I thought the Photographer told those people what to do ??).

Also, the guy was stupid since he waited for the perfect moment (sunrise, you know the golden hour) but his shots were in B&W so you don't even see that nice gold colors.

Anyways, I left him in his wisdom but he's the same person as you describe here who thinks he can make prize winning photo's if he just has the best stuff.

He's not into Post Processing though. I think he just shoots in JPEG (don't even know if he shoots in the highest quality. He doesn't shoot RAW because the files are to big) and then copies them to his PC and is finished.
12-28-2007, 09:43 AM   #19
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I'd classify myself as an advanced amateur, I have had the opportunity to make a few dollars from my photography but for me it's really just a hobby (albeit an all consuming one).

I use the Pentax K10D, I've been using Pentax since 1999, my wife has as long as she can remember.

We both run intel-based macintosh computers, so we have the opportunity to dip into windows if need be. But we've not done so in quite a while.

When we were using Windows we liked Microsoft Digital Image Suite. It was cheap and every bit as versatile as Photoshop CS2 for what we did (we had that one as well). Now that we've gotten on the Apple bandwagon I've been recruited to review photo-software for an Apple centered website and can get basically anything I want for free. Because of this I was able to secure 2 different versions of the Adobe Creative Suite (I got Design Premium and Web Premium) as well as Lightroom.

My wife and I both use Lightroom for 99% of what we do, this being because we're into portraiture mainly, and intense altering of portraits is not necessary of useful to us. We like the layout of Lightroom as well as the results it gives us. I also used Apple's "Aperture" program which I liked a lot but haven't secured a free copy yet.

One thing I will say is that as big a fan of Lightroom as I am, I still think it's best to have Photoshop or Elements or something similar to go along with it. Even though I use Lightroom almost exclusively there are obviously some things that it can't do as well (or even as easily) as Photoshop can. I consider Lightroom to be a supplement to Photoshop even though I use it far more often.

SLC

12-28-2007, 11:09 AM   #20
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I am fairly new to digital, having just moved recently into the 21st century purchasing a K10D. I have had a point and shoot Fuji for a couple of years and I have used the Microsoft picture-it software that came on my Windows computer when I bought it and really didn't like it. I downloaded Picasa and really like it and have been using it almost exclusively on all my photos. I am shopping around for software that does more and am considering Corel or Photoshop Elements as a start but haven't decided. I also use Ubuntu Linux and have used Gimp some but I find it a little difficult work with. The Linux version of Picasa won't run on my other computer due to problems with the Via chipset and onboard graphics on it so i'm stuck with Gimp on that one. My question is, is the Corel X2 a better value than Adobe Elements? On paper it looks great but if anyone has used both and which will work better on an aging Windows XP machine with a 2.4G P4,512 meg memory, and onboard intel graphics? I'm getting by with what I have but after buying a new camera and putting a kid through college there isn't much left right now for computer upgrades and expensive software.
12-28-2007, 11:28 AM   #21
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I'll just add a bit of a PS from my first post.

I did use Corel version 7 i think it, is for a number of years. IMSM i bought it around 1997. Mostly made templates for notes in the pipline surveys i used to do. Also did processing of the Kodak DSC_ 25 photos of dents and blow outs etc.

When i decided to go digital in the equine world in 2001, i bought a photographers old system. He upgraded everything.
His D1, computers, monitors, printers etc.
He left on his copy of PS ver 6. I only received 10 minute's of instruction on PS, but i could see how much superior it was over Corel Ver 7.

I have not gone back or kept up with Corel since 2001, but it sounds like they are doing a decent job of it then.??

Dave
12-28-2007, 03:26 PM   #22
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I'm an advanced ametuer shooting a K10. I'm running a 2.1ghz macbook with Apple Aperture. If I need to do extensive edits of a picture I'll transfer it over to my (aging) winxp pc and work on it in PS Elements 2.
12-28-2007, 03:54 PM   #23
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I am an amateur who just graduated to digital. I shot film for about 30 years with various Pentax cameras/lens. I have Adobe PSCS3 which I got for free installed on my computer. I have not tried any post processing yet and to be honest, it scares the hell out of me.

12-28-2007, 04:13 PM   #24
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I try not to post process my images too much, as I feel Iīm creating something that didnīt come out of the shot in the first place, so I use Elements 5.0 (hopped up with Camera Raw 4.2) and thatīs fine for me.

// Mats
12-28-2007, 04:43 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by matsoberg Quote
I try not to post process my images too much, as I feel Iīm creating something that didnīt come out of the shot in the first place, so I use Elements 5.0 (hopped up with Camera Raw 4.2) and thatīs fine for me.

// Mats
I've heard others say similar things, and that's cool if it works for you.

However, I always want to ask, before photography went digital, did you only shoot slide (transparency) film? That's about the only media I can think of that doesn't go through multiple steps of "post processing" (and even slides can be somewhat manipulated during development by time and temp.).

Color prints from color negatives almost certainly were adjusted during printing; papers and filters change the contrast, certain chemicals and temperatures change other aspects. Even Ansel Adams burned and dodged his prints, "zone exposure" or not...even to the point of "removing" aircraft con-trails, I've heard.

I guess I just don't understand the aversion to using software on photographs. Growing up, I understood that fully half of a photog's creativity stemmed from the darkroom, and to me, software is today's darkroom.

Given that today's sensors still don't come close to achieving the dynamic range of film, I should think that anything that could help bring an image to approximate the photographer's inner vision would be fair game.
12-28-2007, 04:56 PM   #26
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I try not to post process my images too much, as I feel Iīm creating something that didnīt come out of the shot in the first place, so I use Elements 5.0 (hopped up with Camera Raw 4.2) and thatīs fine for me.

would you feel that way if you were processing a role of film in the dark room ? it is easier to gain a sense of creativity when thinking of pp software as a digi-drk rm......

now, as for what level one stands on.....i have shot for money, and i now shoot for pleasure ( but i wouldn't refuse a sale ) there is always more to learn, more to see, and more to explore, nicheing ones self can become as debilitating as not pushing.

my pp is done primarily acr, and cs3-ext'd.....i also use lightroom, but tend to use it more for storage and organization than processing....i do not like lightrooms curves, and there is no channel access, one also cannot mask to any sufficient degree, or create alpha channels for selective manipulation, cs3 to my workflow is akin to a lens on the camera.....
one feature of lightroom i do use often is its downloading features; it's fast, resizes and zips, and saves a huge amount of time.
as always, the best tool to have is the one you need at the time........
12-28-2007, 05:29 PM   #27
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I can't believe I'm the first...

person to respond with LIGHTZONE by Lightcrafts.

I'm a novice-to-intermediate amateur. I started in Digital with an Olympus D490 in 2000, then an Olympus C-750 in 2002, then an *ist DS in 2004, and finally my K10D in 2007. I started processing with Camedia, then Photoshop.

I now have 3 computers - 2 running Windows XP/Vista and 1 running Xandros Linux. Lightzone is installed on all of them, and I use it for over 90% of my processing.

Lightzone is a very intuitive program, and easily does almost everything that my PS CS2 program could do.

Yes, I have CS2 as well, but it's only my fall-back program now.

My Lightzone work can be seen at: Ian McMillan's Photo Galleries at pbase.com


Ian Mc.
12-28-2007, 05:41 PM   #28
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I am a total amateur and have the Pentax k10d which I use to shoot raw, PEF.

So far I have been using the pentax software, photomatix pro for HDR, picasa2, Paint.net, irfanview, and recently tried GIMP2. I don't like any of them, since none are easy to learn and readily compatible. I tried some of the tutorials for layer manipulations in GIMP but get totally lost or fouled up beyond repair and need to start over.

I am looking for something easy to learn. Do you really need both Elements and Lightroom?

( I added this comment in your blog as well)
12-28-2007, 07:45 PM   #29
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I'm just a picture taker who has been using a Pentax camera since 1969 and now a K10D and a Ds. I have Photoshop 7, PS Elements 3, ACDC, and Picasa 2. Since I only shoot jpeg, I generally use just Picasa for basic quick processing and printing. I will use PS7 for text and other tweaking. I hardly use PS Elements 3 and only bought it because it was on sale cheap and thought it would have a shorter learning curve. Not.

If a person can grasp Elements, they can quickly pick up Photoshop or vise versa. I played with the beta free version of CS3 and, like another poster said, I found very little difference as an unsophisticated user.

I think all the programs have good browsers and organizers, but I like the Pentax Photo Broswer for reviewing new photos because of the large area of exif information at the bottom of the screen.

When Lightroom beta was available for free, I played with it, but for $300USD, I can't see the justification for the cost. It seems like it only had the tools that every other program has whether free or otherwise. It's been said that it is good for work flow. I don't have any work flow issues, so I can't address that.

I have to agree though that Photoshop is King.

John
12-28-2007, 10:08 PM   #30
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Lightroom is a unique beast. First of all, Lightroom is not an image manipulation program to the extent Photoshop, Elements, Gimp, and others are. I see Lightroom as more of a practical tool for image management and manipulation, and is certainly not a well stocked toolbox full of image processing tools, plugins, and scripts. It's got the most common things you will need to *tweak* your photos to your specs.

On to my usage! I am a semi-pro photographer due to the part-time nature of the gig. The full time job pays the insurance and more so I can't afford to dive in as a 100% full-time photographer. With 3-5 shoots a week, I am certainly busy enough. This means I get to process a lot of images to prep them for printing.

For this Lightroom has been absolutely invaluable. I can preview hundreds of images, generate proof sheets, pick/choose/rate/discard images, fix or mod the photo, generate web galleries and so much more. For the day to day, Lightroom has been a dream. My only qualm about Lightroom is there's no multi-user network support, so if I wanted to work on photos, make my changes, then pass it on to my wife to prep for print, she would have to come to my computer to do it.

For more detailed post-processing, Photoshop is what we use. I could also use Gimp, but I haven't had the chance to learn it to a level where I would be very productive with it. Besides, my wife is a graphic designer and an Adobe maven so I don't mess with her skills
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