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01-15-2012, 05:56 AM   #31
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With bundling a adapter Pentax would have hard time to compete with other brands for new users that has no need of backward compatibility. And most old users of K-mount will probably prefer a K-mount camera as they work better for them.

There's just no one-for-all solution that can be optimized for all different users.

01-15-2012, 07:12 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
With bundling a adapter Pentax would have hard time to compete with other brands for new users that has no need of backward compatibility. And most old users of K-mount will probably prefer a K-mount camera as they work better for them.

There's just no one-for-all solution that can be optimized for all different users.
They would have no need for backward capability because they wouldn't have any lenses worth being backward capable with. They could focus on the new mount, but just leave open the option of investing in K mount glass, I wouldn't buy a new pentax if my other lenses didnt work with it - I don't see how it could make it harder to compete with other brands by providing an adapter allowing the camera to be used with literally hundreds of used lenses... Pentax should also support the new mount, bringing out 3 PANCAKE primes- an wide, medium and short-telephoto to start with (like a da 15, da 40 and da 70 for the 'new'mount)
01-15-2012, 08:05 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by chaza01 Quote
They would have no need for backward capability because they wouldn't have any lenses worth being backward capable with. They could focus on the new mount, but just leave open the option of investing in K mount glass, I wouldn't buy a new pentax if my other lenses didnt work with it - I don't see how it could make it harder to compete with other brands by providing an adapter allowing the camera to be used with literally hundreds of used lenses... Pentax should also support the new mount, bringing out 3 PANCAKE primes- an wide, medium and short-telephoto to start with (like a da 15, da 40 and da 70 for the 'new'mount)
You think Pentax can bundle an adapter with every camera and keep up with price on other mirrorless cameras?
I doubt that Pentax can make an adapter for full support of K-mount much cheaper than Sony can with A-mount adapter for Nex.
Digital Camera Lens Adapter | α NEX Camera Mount Adapter | LA-EA2 | Sony USA

You and me are probably not the users Pentax primarily try to get with a mirrorless system. It's for new users of big sensor system cameras that comes from P&S or smartphones. Users that otherwise would get m43 or NEX if Pentax don't have this type of camera.

I also doubt that most existing users of K-mount lenses will prefer a mirrorless camera with adapter instead of a K-mount DSLR.
Sure an adapter might be a reason for Pentax users to also get a mirrorless camera from Pentax, but I doubt it will be to replace their existing K-mount DSLR.
01-15-2012, 08:15 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
You think Pentax can bundle an adapter with every camera and keep up with price on other mirrorless cameras?
I doubt that Pentax can make an adapter for full support of K-mount much cheaper than Sony can with A-mount adapter for Nex.
Digital Camera Lens Adapter | α NEX Camera Mount Adapter | LA-EA2 | Sony USA

You and me are probably not the users Pentax primarily try to get with a mirrorless system. It's for new users of big sensor system cameras that comes from P&S or smartphones. Users that otherwise would get m43 or NEX if Pentax don't have this type of camera.

I also doubt that most existing users of K-mount lenses will prefer a mirrorless camera with adapter instead of a K-mount DSLR.
Sure an adapter might be a reason for Pentax users to also get a mirrorless camera from Pentax, but I doubt it will be to replace their existing K-mount DSLR.
More like this Sony LA-EA1 Mount Adapter (LAEA1) - wex photographic, besides, with the amount people are paying for fuji, if pentax produce a superior mirrorless, price won't be as much of an issue- I guess they could always include a manual focus only adaptor, remind consumers of the plentiful MF K mounts and then sell an AF version separately-what about that?

01-15-2012, 08:20 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
You think Pentax can bundle an adapter with every camera and keep up with price on other mirrorless cameras?
I doubt that Pentax can make an adapter for full support of K-mount much cheaper than Sony can with A-mount adapter for Nex.
Digital Camera Lens Adapter | α NEX Camera Mount Adapter | LA-EA2 | Sony USA

You and me are probably not the users Pentax primarily try to get with a mirrorless system. It's for new users of big sensor system cameras that comes from P&S or smartphones. Users that otherwise would get m43 or NEX if Pentax don't have this type of camera.

I also doubt that most existing users of K-mount lenses will prefer a mirrorless camera with adapter instead of a K-mount DSLR.
Sure an adapter might be a reason for Pentax users to also get a mirrorless camera from Pentax, but I doubt it will be to replace their existing K-mount DSLR.
Not replacing, just serving as a light weight alternative perhaps with faster shutter speeds...
01-15-2012, 09:15 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
You think Pentax can bundle an adapter with every camera and keep up with price on other mirrorless cameras?
How much do you think a metal ring costs to make? Obviously it wouldn't be free, but it shouldn't be very expensive either. We aren't talking about anything that has glass in it. So I think they could bundle said adapter with the camera at a minimal cost, if they wanted to.

Of course, they could also go the route of offering a kit with and a kit without the adapter.
01-15-2012, 09:28 AM   #37
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I think most Pentax users didn't realize why they are so insisting on backward capability. It is not only because what they have already had, but what Pentax has been unable to deliver. So instead of expecting great things, people hang on to the past.

For any brand, if the right products are made, people will buy. For examples, Apple was near death before i-whatever hit the markets. Fujifilm took everyone by surprise with X-Pro1 and generate great interest. Similar examples are everywhere. Old brands that lag behind will be abandoned, and that's what have been happening to Pentax.

The problem with Pentax is their stubbon half-baked approach to everything that they have designed and made. After using Pentax for 2 decades, I come to realize the Pentax way. They have never nailed any products right; it could be technological issues, QC issues, optical issue, or just plain out of touch with the market trend. There have been much hype for pretty much every flagship dslr inside the Pentax communities from K10D to K-5, but not everyone is blinded and hooked on Pentax. Those who see the limitations will switch. One cannot blame every failure on brand image and blinded customers.

As to the mirrorless, I honestly have low expectation from Pentax because I know they will likely screw up something. I think Fujifilm nail it with the X-Pro1. m4/3 has much potential too but their inability to produce first class fast primes is limiting the entire system. I hope great things will happen to Pentax, but I am not seeing it with their stubborn management. Reputation is earned, not given.

Last edited by wlachan; 01-15-2012 at 10:13 AM.
01-15-2012, 10:37 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
How much do you think a metal ring costs to make? Obviously it wouldn't be free, but it shouldn't be very expensive either. We aren't talking about anything that has glass in it. So I think they could bundle said adapter with the camera at a minimal cost, if they wanted to.

Of course, they could also go the route of offering a kit with and a kit without the adapter.
What I was replying to was bundle a full supported AF adapter.

But even a manual focus adapter will cost quite much as it at least need to support automatic aperture as most Pentax current lenses don't have aperture ring. So say it will add USD100 to the kit.

01-15-2012, 10:50 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by wlachan Quote
I think most Pentax users didn't realize why they are so insisting on backward capability. It is not only because what they have already had, but what Pentax has been unable to deliver. So instead of expecting great things, people hang on to the past.

For any brand, if the right products are made, people will buy. For examples, Apple was near death before i-whatever hit the markets. Fujifilm took everyone by surprise with X-Pro1 and generate great interest. Similar examples are everywhere. Old brands that lag behind will be abandoned, and that's what have been happening to Pentax.

The problem with Pentax is their stubbon half-baked approach to everything that they have designed and made. After using Pentax for 2 decades, I come to realize the Pentax way. They have never nailed any products right; it could be technological issues, QC issues, optical issue, or just plain out of touch with the market trend. There have been much hype for pretty much every flagship dslr inside the Pentax communities from K10D to K-5, but not everyone is blinded and hooked on Pentax. Those who see the limitations will switch. One cannot blame every failure on brand image and blinded customers.

As to the mirrorless, I honestly have low expectation from Pentax because I know they will likely screw up something. I think Fujifilm nail it with the X-Pro1. m4/3 has much potential too but their inability to produce first class fast primes is limiting the entire system. I hope great things will happen to Pentax, but I am not seeing it with their stubborn management. Reputation is earned, not given.

I see your point. And then suddenly they decide to go all adventurous a redesign a point and shoot camera so that you have to point, fit lens, and then shoot. mmhhhh. Pentax should go retro- besides, it sounds retro... Even if they abandon k mount for a fuji-like mirrorless, as long as they make the money to build proper high end slrs and a full frame one day, then I am happy.
01-15-2012, 11:17 AM   #40
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For me, if it doesn't support K-mount, then I would be just as likely to consider competitors such as Fuji, Sony, etc. Whoever can give me the best camera for the least amount of money.
01-15-2012, 12:47 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
For me, if it doesn't support K-mount, then I would be just as likely to consider competitors such as Fuji, Sony, etc. Whoever can give me the best camera for the least amount of money.
For pentax users, K-mount matters; for other consumers, it doesn't. Personally I understand the reason for a new mount but would want a K-mount adapter.
01-15-2012, 04:23 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by wlachan Quote
Certainly can, that would be a new mount for the mirrorless then.
Yeah.
01-15-2012, 04:25 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by chaza01 Quote
For pentax users, K-mount matters; for other consumers, it doesn't.
Oh really? So prospective buyers wouldn't care about whether there are hundreds of different lenses available, or only a handful? That's an interesting theory.
01-15-2012, 04:28 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
Oh really? So prospective buyers wouldn't care about whether there are hundreds of different lenses available, or only a handful? That's an interesting theory.
Probably most buyers of those systems only use one or two lenses. So they really don't care a lot about the number of lenses.
01-15-2012, 04:32 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Probably most buyers of those systems only use one or two lenses. So they really don't care a lot about the number of lenses.
Maybe, but I'm not convinced of that. It seems to me that the kind of people that are most interested in the two Fuji cameras are enthusiasts. The exact kind of people who are into lenses.
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