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01-20-2012, 08:43 PM   #31
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I've shot with my one teacher's Nikons and a friends Canon a few times. On the same basic settings I find the Nikon colors mostly okay if a little flat on the greens and the Canon it's just blah. In general I like using RAW because I can tweak the colors to suit me but even in RAW I do notice some differences in coloring using the Nikon or the Canon versus my K-x. Canon's green and red seem a bit unnatural to me, Nikon's are flatter.

I like color that really pops and the Pentax color algorithm does seem to suit my tastes a bit better, though for what it's worth I can get a Nikon or Canon look just by switching in settings. Pentax has two levels of color and one is brighter than the other. Some people don't like that actually. They want to work with more muted colors but that's not me. I like my greens GREEN and my reds RED not bluish or yellowish.

Sometimes I do have a problem with reds and greens but not often and even with using RAW I don't have to do as much post processing on my Pentax shots as I have done with the other two. There are times when I wish Pentax had some features that the Nikon does, but I find that the way the Pentax works, the ergonomics, the color rendition, it more than makes up for any lack.

Nikon would be my second choice for a non-Pentax system if I needed something more than Pentax could give me in terms of camera scope, like FF, but I think in some ways that Pentax suits me better than the more expensive cameras I've tried. Sometimes it's not about how much a camera costs. More isn't necessarily better for me...

01-21-2012, 06:05 AM   #32
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I find that Green is Greener on my pentax lenses than on Tamron or Vivitar (and various other 3rd party lenses I've owned)...
I wonder if the lens coatong has an effect on saturation?
01-21-2012, 08:19 AM   #33
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Most of it is how saturated colors are by default (JPEG output). Pentax AFAIK has always been neutral (more WYSIWYG), like Fuji. Sony/Nikon/Canon are a bit more saturated/contrasty by default because the colors "pop" and people who try them out w/ default settings like the pop that you can get in post.

The other thing is Pentax lenses are warmer (Sigma ones are even warmer...yellower) than most Canikon lenses. Nikon lenses have been colder (bluer) until recently as well (a Nikon friend mentioned that about a year ago after I was telling him that I prefer warmish lenses).
01-21-2012, 01:08 PM   #34
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While colour can be adjusted during raw conversion, there are still colour filters over the sensor making the Bayer array, no? Surely the colour of those filters is going to have some effect on things.

01-21-2012, 07:05 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
While colour can be adjusted during raw conversion, there are still colour filters over the sensor making the Bayer array, no? Surely the colour of those filters is going to have some effect on things.
I would expect it to be the same between most sensors with the same technology or from the same manufacturer, thus you shouldn't see difference from, e.g., the same Sony sensor used on a Pentax and a Nikon.

OTOH, the sensor is an analog device, and final image is digital. That means there's an AD conversion process, which is responsible to interpret and compress the sensor data to a pixel with a certain bit-depth. This process is where each manufacturer do it's own "tweaks", probably considering how the images render with their own lenses, etc.
01-22-2012, 12:10 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Surely the colour of those filters is going to have some effect on things.
Correct. Filters differ in how discriminative they are, e.g., to what extent they overlap.

This is speculation, but I could imagine that one and the same sensor is used with different colour filters by different camera manufacturers.
01-22-2012, 07:01 AM   #37
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Hmmm...I just revisited this thread and realized that the original post was about Pentax DSLRs...not Pentax lenses. That's what I get for doing "drive-by postings". I believe there IS a difference in the color rendition of Pentax lenses...and it's a difference that I like. However, I formed this opinion long ago while using the same camera...same film...same conditions...and only swapping out lenses. Using those same lenses on a DSLR is a whole other ballgame. I stand by my statement that Pentax lenses gives us a "different starting point", but there are so many variables in the DSLR chain that I can't really see how we can accurately judge the color rendition of DSLRs. Is it the sensor...is it the presets..who knows?
01-23-2012, 01:55 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
I would expect it to be the same between most sensors with the same technology or from the same manufacturer, thus you shouldn't see difference from, e.g., the same Sony sensor used on a Pentax and a Nikon.
As far as I know, on Sony sensors the CFA is customized for the client, e.g. Hoya/Ricoh gets different for K-5 than Nikon for D7000.

01-23-2012, 02:03 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
While colour can be adjusted during raw conversion, there are still colour filters over the sensor making the Bayer array, no? Surely the colour of those filters is going to have some effect on things.
Exactly. You can't create exactly the same colours from two different base if one of them is missing some colours.

People also seem to forget that almost all of the raw converters have and use custom camera profiles for each camera (and WB and ISO), thus a D7000 NEF and a K-5 PEF is processed in a different way with different parameters even in the same raw converter. Even the choice of demosaicing algorithm means different output.

No matter what you do, you always compare apples to oranges.
01-24-2012, 09:03 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by simico Quote
As far as I know, on Sony sensors the CFA is customized for the client, e.g. Hoya/Ricoh gets different for K-5 than Nikon for D7000.
Really? I would think a manufacturer would sell all sensors the same, so they can run big batches, simplify QA and keep costs low.
01-24-2012, 10:44 PM   #41
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Sony does customize their sensors to varying (usually small) degrees for Nikon and others. This is so Nikon can market them as their own, or at least as "designed for Nikon". It's mainly a marketing gimmick, but would result in some small differences between the brands that use them.
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