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02-08-2012, 06:53 AM   #91
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I'd like a bare bones full frame 35mm affordable 18mp rangefinder.

02-08-2012, 09:52 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I'd like to direct you to some real people with some real world experience with the camera

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-01-forum/174006-hands-photos-k-0...ser-group.html

I don't think that they found any serious usability issues with the camera.
For their needs, based on their experience level. But what is usable for one isn't necessarily so for another. I don't have to use this particular viewfinderless camera (the lack of a viewfinder is more significant for me than the lack of a mirror) to know what I already know to be true of viewfinderless cameras in general is going to be pf this one, too. My eyes won't magically gain the ability to focus on an LCD under a foot away. The image on the LCD won't magically provide as much magnification for the same FOV as a viewfinder image. My arms won't magically gain the ability to hold the camera more steadily than with it also supported by my face. LCD's won't magically become less distracting in a dark environment. People won't magically start giving me an extra couple of feet of working room.

So sure, for some people whose needs are such that none of those issues matter, or are trumped by the other advantages, this will be a fine camera. Clearly, many people are fine with shooting via LCD's, and indeed find shooting in the traditional way unfamiiar and awkward. So I don't begrudge anyone the existence or use of this camera. But I am quite sure it is not for me. An eventual followup that includes an EVF - particularly if it is more advanced than current EVF's, which I find somewhat wanting, but clearly promising - will get my attention for sure.

Last edited by Marc Sabatella; 02-08-2012 at 09:57 AM.
02-08-2012, 10:03 AM   #93
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WOW! what discussion. It may sound corny but this is the only take I have about mirrorless, I would think that if you changed lenses a lot, you might be prone to having to clean the sensor more. That may be an unfounded concern, but I shoot mostly outdoors, and I thought that mirror was some sort of a barrier. With that sensor just hanging out in the open, I would worry. I think the K-01 is awesome, just not for me. Besides, I just bought a second K5, I am pretty sure my wife would just plain choke me if I asked for one. (Mother's day is coming though)
02-08-2012, 10:05 AM - 1 Like   #94
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I want mirrorless because an advertisement told me it was best.

02-08-2012, 10:11 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
For their needs, based on their experience level. But what is usable for one isn't necessarily so for another. I don't have to use this particular viewfinderless camera (the lack of a viewfinder is more significant for me than the lack of a mirror) to know what I already know to be true of viewfinderless cameras in general is going to be pf this one, too. My eyes won't magically gain the ability to focus on an LCD under a foot away. The image on the LCD won't magically provide as much magnification for the same FOV as a viewfinder image. My arms won't magically gain the ability to hold the camera more steadily than with it also supported by my face. LCD's won't magically become less distracting in a dark environment. People won't magically start giving me an extra couple of feet of working room.

So sure, for some people whose needs are such that none of those issues matter, or are trumped by the other advantages, this will be a fine camera. Clearly, many people are fine with shooting via LCD's, and indeed find shooting in the traditional way unfamiiar and awkward. So I don't begrudge anyone the existence or use of this camera. But I am quite sure it is not for me. An eventual followup that includes an EVF - particularly if it is more advanced than current EVF's, which I find somewhat wanting, but clearly promising - will get my attention for sure.
I agree with much of what you are saying, Mark, and there are certainly situation where I'll prefer to use the K-5 over the K-01. But there's a lot of criticism here about the usability of the camera - access to buttons, placement of controls, etc - from people who have not held the camera. I point to our friends in Singapore as a real-world example.

If someone's got physical limitations that prevents them from using a rear LCD, then maybe the K-01 isn't for them after all. That's ok. But to criticize things like usability from the comfort of a keyboard is a bit silly if you ask me.

QuoteOriginally posted by ggeorge11 Quote
WOW! what discussion. It may sound corny but this is the only take I have about mirrorless, I would think that if you changed lenses a lot, you might be prone to having to clean the sensor more. That may be an unfounded concern, but I shoot mostly outdoors, and I thought that mirror was some sort of a barrier. With that sensor just hanging out in the open, I would worry. I think the K-01 is awesome, just not for me. Besides, I just bought a second K5, I am pretty sure my wife would just plain choke me if I asked for one. (Mother's day is coming though)
Get your wife one for mother's day with that cute little lens. Let us know if that works out for you!!!
02-14-2012, 01:19 AM   #96
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Discussion still doing strong hy? Mirrorless is to photography, as etch-a-scetch is to painting.
02-14-2012, 01:30 AM   #97
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I have even seen people use that device on a NEX5n, because it made a bigger viewfinder then the EVF.


...I just don't get it... Why then not just get a camera with a eye-level viewfinder? You don't HAVE to buy the new cameras. Those marketing people of those camera manufacturers will not come knocking on your door or something.
02-14-2012, 01:02 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
It is all about the angles. Angles that with a dSLR you'd have to get up on a chair or down on your belly for. Angles that you've never taken before. Angles that your aging knees no longer want to take. Angles that let you maintain a relationship and rapport with your subject instead of hiding behind a black box.

Sure, taking the camera away from your eye does have issues in bright light and stability, but it also opens up creative opportunities.







Call me crazy, but I love composing with the rear LCD. It's wonderfully freeing.
+1. I like using a tripod, but i have to admit that using Liveview and the LCD frees up the creative ideas. Whether downlow or really up high, or a really unusual angle, the LCD is ready to go. Fold out would probably be even better, but one can often get by with the back of the camera.

I think the important point here is that there are pros and cons to any camera, and Pentax is not restricting us to just one model line, so no fear, there will be plenty more of K5 style camera to go.

This one was taken holding the K5 up pretty high and vf was out of reach:



Down low of course, but didn't need to lie face down on the wet beach:



This wooden dog was hard to get to with a VF as well because of a wall






02-14-2012, 02:17 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
That should work, but that also makes the K-01 plus loupe bigger than a K-5. If someone regularly needs a VF (for long glass, for macro, for far-sightedness. etc), the K-5 (or the K-r successor) may be the better choice.

I like the K-01, but I have no illusions as to what its strengths and weaknesses are.
Well when I look at this picture then I'm shoure that I can use DA*300mm on K-01 with monopod.

02-14-2012, 02:37 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well when I look at this picture then I'm shoure that I can use DA*300mm on K-01 with monopod.
For me, that setup may work but it will actually take up more space in the bag than my K-5, so unless there's a compelling reason - i.e., better IQ or better AF.C - I'll pass.

Let us know how it turns out! IIRC you shoot a lot of sports - it will be good to hear your feedback about such a setup and the CDAF.
02-14-2012, 02:45 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Let us know how it turns out! IIRC you shoot a lot of sports - it will be good to hear your feedback about such a setup and the CDAF.
I'm thinking of getting such a thing for use with movie-mode. For sports maybe, but some sports are not that hard on AF, like diving when you stand on the side.

Just looking into what will work.
02-14-2012, 05:06 PM   #102
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Trust, but verify ...

We've seen the occasional comment in this thread that using a VF allows the camera to be anchored by one's face and provides a sharper picture than holding the camera in the typical 2 handed LCD chimping mode.

So i installed a DA300 lens onto the K5 and took shots of a white window frame about a 1/4+ mile away. The shots were taken in both phase AF and then by CDAF in Liveview. Shutter speed was 1/1000s with SR on. I repeated the test a coupla times.

Looking at the 2 images, the Handheld phase AF one, with my nose locked into the VF was reasonably sharp at 8x on the LCD. Shifting to Liveview and handholding the camera without locking the camera into my face, the pic appeared significantly fuzzier at 8x. Even when i raised the shutter speed to 1/2000, i was unable to get as sharp a picture with the CDAF as the phase AF picture.
02-15-2012, 01:46 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well when I look at this picture then I'm shoure that I can use DA*300mm on K-01 with monopod.
Attaching an optical device to see the electronic screen better... That DOES say a LOT.

I've even seen people use that thing on their NEX5n, totally ignoring the eye-level viewfinder, swearing the combo of LCD screen with this optical device makes for a better display. They even still thought it was very small and compact, even though it was larger then my K5 with 18-135 attached. I knew marketing is a powerfull weapon, but this spells "brainwashed".

Instead of buying item A and then converting it into item B with all kinds of attachments, why not just buy item B?
02-15-2012, 02:17 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Looking at the 2 images, the Handheld phase AF one, with my nose locked into the VF was reasonably sharp at 8x on the LCD. Shifting to Liveview and handholding the camera without locking the camera into my face, the pic appeared significantly fuzzier at 8x. Even when i raised the shutter speed to 1/2000, i was unable to get as sharp a picture with the CDAF as the phase AF picture.
You did well - with a 300mm and holding my K-7 at arm's length I find it hard to even compose a shot. Just shoot some video like that and see how bad the shake is. Then again people who buy these things don't use them to shoot windows at a 1/4 mile. It is all about profits, crap electronics and software are cheap, optics costs.
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