Pentax K200D PCB problem

tuggie76 · 02-09-2012, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by dgaies

I'm fairly certain you can use alkalines AA batteries, I know I've done so in the K-x in a pinch (and I'm fairly certain I did back with the K200D as well). The biggest issue is that they typically don't last more than 100 shots.

With my k200d I have found it cheaper and easier to buy a sleeve of Costco batteries for $12.00, they don't last long but I can throw them away and put another set in! Having said that I'm thinking of getting some eneloops, but you need 4 for the camera, 4 for both flashes, and at least 1 back up set, at $20.00 for a set of 4 the cost mounts up pretty quick!

Tuggie76

Last edited by tuggie76; 02-11-2012 at 12:42 PM.

Marc Sabatella · 02-09-2012, 04:13 PM

Buying generic disposables is much more expensive in the long run than buying rechargeables, much more hassle from having to change them so often, and much worse for the environment. From being better, it is worse in every possible way imaginable. Although for a flash, the alkalines might perform well enough to make them a decent choice. Depends on how uch you use the flash, I guess. The more you use a device, the sooner you hit the breakeven point at which rechargeabkes become a win. For a DSLR with typical usage, you could expect Eneloops to cheaper within the first 1000 shots or so.

Marc Sabatella · 02-09-2012, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by Belcik

That is true...
But to have more efficient work of AF, you need more than 1.2V. That is why Lithiums work better. Shame that they did not developed k200d, I do like it in lower iso....

I don't find the difference in AF speed to be significant enough between lithiums and Eneloops to be worth the much greater expense and environmental impact of lithiums.

dgaies · 02-09-2012, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

Buying generic disposables is much more expensive in the long run than buying rechargeables, much more hassle from having to change them so often, and much worse for the environment. From being better, it is worse in every possible way imaginable. Although for a flash, the alkalines might perform well enough to make them a decent choice. Depends on how uch you use the flash, I guess. The more you use a device, the sooner you hit the breakeven point at which rechargeabkes become a win. For a DSLR with typical usage, you could expect Eneloops to cheaper within the first 1000 shots or so.

I totally agree, and I certainly wasn't advocating using disposable Alkaline AA batteries to power a DSLR on a regular basis. I only mean that in an emergency you could stick a set in there and get a few dozen shots, that it would be better than nothing.

I will say that is someone using their DSLR somewhat infrequently, there is a case to be made for the Lithium batteries (non-rechargeable) as a power source from an economic point of view (although not necessarily an environmental). The set of Lithium AA batteries that came with my K-x lasted over 2000 shots, and at a cost of about $7-8/set, it's quite possible that someone that only takes several hundred pictures a year might be better off with a set of those as opposed to buying eneloops and a charging system. Once nice thing about those batteries is that they have a shelf life of 15+ years. The obvious downside is that they're not rechargeable.

tuggie76 · 02-09-2012, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by dgaies

I totally agree, and I certainly wasn't advocating using disposable Alkaline AA batteries to power a DSLR on a regular basis. I only mean that in an emergency you could stick a set in there and get a few dozen shots, that it would be better than nothing.

I used to use rechargeables but found they didn't last very long and couldn't keep enough charged ones around! It was easier to just slip a new set in.

I'll try a set of eneloops and see how they work out.

Tuggie76

dgaies · 02-09-2012, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by tuggie76

I used to use rechargeables but found they didn't last very long and couldn't keep enough charged ones around! It was easier to just slip a new set in.

I'll try a set of eneloops and see how they work out.

Tuggie76

The Eneloops (and other similar low-discharge hybrid batteries) hold their charge far better than traditional rechargeable batteries (NiCd/NiMH). Certainly the best way to go for most applications that require AA batteries.

wlachan · 02-09-2012, 06:57 PM

Sanyo XX is the new king.

dgaies · 02-09-2012, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by wlachan

Sanyo XX is the new king.

I haven't personally used them, but I hear lots of good things about them. Plus they have a cool logo on them

**RobA_Oz** · 02-10-2012, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by RKKS08

@ RobA_Oz

"Although alkaline cells are rated at 1.5 volts and NiMH cells at 1.2 volts, during discharge the alkaline voltage eventually drops below that of NiMH. This is particularly true for high drain applications, where the voltage of even a fresh alkaline battery can be lower than a NiMH battery while under a load. Furthermore, NiMH batteries offer a flatter discharge curve, particularly at higher current draw."
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93metal_hydride_battery

This should answer your question.
There you will also find information about LSD/nonLSD NiMH cells. Eneloops are of the LSD type (among other differences) and their voltage does not give in as much on high current drain as the nonLSD types ("high capacity" cells).
You should keep in mind that a DSLR in some situations needs a very high current - using an external power supply, in tests the K10D used up to 1.8A when saving to the SD card.

Thanks for the explanation, although I was more concerned that some people seemed to think (or, at least, gave me the impression) that the use of alkalines could contribute to the damage experienced by the OP. What you say indicates that this should not be the case.

cfraz · 02-10-2012, 08:13 PM

My K200D had a main board failure also. Repair quote from CRIS was under $300 if I remember correctly. It was just 1 or 2 months out of warranty, so I called Pentax and they graciously reduced the repair charge 15% or so. Repair took about 4 weeks. The camera was absolutely faultless before the main board died - I could access some menu items and the SD card but couldn't fire the shutter - and it's been faultless since.

tuggie76 · 02-11-2012, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by tuggie76

I used to use rechargeables but found they didn't last very long and couldn't keep enough charged ones around! It was easier to just slip a new set in.

I'll try a set of eneloops and see how they work out.

Tuggie76

So I went to Blacks to buy a set of Eneloops for$19.95, turns out they were on sale for$9.95!!!! I used them today and shot about 100 photos, so far so good.Now to get some more beore the sale ends!

Tuggie76

kkoether · 02-11-2012, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by tuggie76

So I went to Blacks to buy a set of Eneloops for$19.95, turns out they were on sale for$9.95!!!! I used them today and shot about 100 photos, so far so good.Now to get some more beore the sale ends!

Tuggie76

Tuggie76, Make sure you use a good charger to charge those Eneloop's. At the very least buy a set of Eneloop's with a charger included. I've had issues trying to charge Eneloop's with cheap generic chargers. A lot of people recommend the Maha and LaCrosse chargers. I use the standard Eneloop charger and have had no problems going that route.

tuggie76 · 02-11-2012, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by kkoether

Tuggie76, Make sure you use a good charger to charge those Eneloop's. At the very least buy a set of Eneloop's with a charger included. I've had issues trying to charge Eneloop's with cheap generic chargers. A lot of people recommend the Maha and LaCrosse chargers. I use the standard Eneloop charger and have had no problems going that route.

I thought I'd read that they can be charged by any AA charger, I have a Panasonic BQ-390 that I'd hoped would work.

Tuggie76

kkoether · 02-11-2012, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by tuggie76

I thought I'd read thet they can be charged by any AA charger, I have a Panasonic BQ-390 that I'd hoped would work.

Tuggie76

It may, I'm just going off of personal experience. I've seen people that were unhappy with Eneloop's and it turned out the be what they were using to charge them. I had an Energizer charger that I used with my old point and shoot. It charged the NiCad's just fine but if I tried to charge my Eneloop's I could barely get 100 or so shots out of them. Something to think about the first time you try your charger with the Eneloop's. It may work just fine.

Marc Sabatella · 02-11-2012, 05:31 PM

I've had no problems with cheap generic chargers, but I use my good one when possible just to be safe. Note that the cells as sold are probably not fully charged, so don't expect to get the same 500 or more shots from them, as you would if they had been charged more fully and recently.

02-09-2012, 02:46 PM	#16
tuggie76 Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,215	AA Cells Originally posted by dgaies I'm fairly certain you can use alkalines AA batteries, I know I've done so in the K-x in a pinch (and I'm fairly certain I did back with the K200D as well). The biggest issue is that they typically don't last more than 100 shots. With my k200d I have found it cheaper and easier to buy a sleeve of Costco batteries for $12.00, they don't last long but I can throw them away and put another set in! Having said that I'm thinking of getting some eneloops, but you need 4 for the camera, 4 for both flashes, and at least 1 back up set, at $20.00 for a set of 4 the cost mounts up pretty quick! Tuggie76 Last edited by tuggie76; 02-11-2012 at 12:42 PM.

02-09-2012, 06:46 PM	#20
tuggie76 Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,215	AA Batteries Originally posted by dgaies I totally agree, and I certainly wasn't advocating using disposable Alkaline AA batteries to power a DSLR on a regular basis. I only mean that in an emergency you could stick a set in there and get a few dozen shots, that it would be better than nothing. I used to use rechargeables but found they didn't last very long and couldn't keep enough charged ones around! It was easier to just slip a new set in. I'll try a set of eneloops and see how they work out. Tuggie76

02-11-2012, 02:51 PM	#28
tuggie76 Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,215	Originally posted by kkoether Tuggie76, Make sure you use a good charger to charge those Eneloop's. At the very least buy a set of Eneloop's with a charger included. I've had issues trying to charge Eneloop's with cheap generic chargers. A lot of people recommend the Maha and LaCrosse chargers. I use the standard Eneloop charger and have had no problems going that route. I thought I'd read that they can be charged by any AA charger, I have a Panasonic BQ-390 that I'd hoped would work. Tuggie76 Last edited by tuggie76; 02-11-2012 at 02:57 PM.

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02-09-2012, 04:13 PM	#17
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Buying generic disposables is much more expensive in the long run than buying rechargeables, much more hassle from having to change them so often, and much worse for the environment. From being better, it is worse in every possible way imaginable. Although for a flash, the alkalines might perform well enough to make them a decent choice. Depends on how uch you use the flash, I guess. The more you use a device, the sooner you hit the breakeven point at which rechargeabkes become a win. For a DSLR with typical usage, you could expect Eneloops to cheaper within the first 1000 shots or so.

02-09-2012, 04:15 PM	#18
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by Belcik That is true... But to have more efficient work of AF, you need more than 1.2V. That is why Lithiums work better. Shame that they did not developed k200d, I do like it in lower iso.... I don't find the difference in AF speed to be significant enough between lithiums and Eneloops to be worth the much greater expense and environmental impact of lithiums.

02-09-2012, 04:30 PM	#19
dgaies Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Maryland / Washington DC Posts: 3,917	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella Buying generic disposables is much more expensive in the long run than buying rechargeables, much more hassle from having to change them so often, and much worse for the environment. From being better, it is worse in every possible way imaginable. Although for a flash, the alkalines might perform well enough to make them a decent choice. Depends on how uch you use the flash, I guess. The more you use a device, the sooner you hit the breakeven point at which rechargeabkes become a win. For a DSLR with typical usage, you could expect Eneloops to cheaper within the first 1000 shots or so. I totally agree, and I certainly wasn't advocating using disposable Alkaline AA batteries to power a DSLR on a regular basis. I only mean that in an emergency you could stick a set in there and get a few dozen shots, that it would be better than nothing. I will say that is someone using their DSLR somewhat infrequently, there is a case to be made for the Lithium batteries (non-rechargeable) as a power source from an economic point of view (although not necessarily an environmental). The set of Lithium AA batteries that came with my K-x lasted over 2000 shots, and at a cost of about $7-8/set, it's quite possible that someone that only takes several hundred pictures a year might be better off with a set of those as opposed to buying eneloops and a charging system. Once nice thing about those batteries is that they have a shelf life of 15+ years. The obvious downside is that they're not rechargeable.

02-09-2012, 06:55 PM	#21
dgaies Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Maryland / Washington DC Posts: 3,917	Originally posted by tuggie76 I used to use rechargeables but found they didn't last very long and couldn't keep enough charged ones around! It was easier to just slip a new set in. I'll try a set of eneloops and see how they work out. Tuggie76 The Eneloops (and other similar low-discharge hybrid batteries) hold their charge far better than traditional rechargeable batteries (NiCd/NiMH). Certainly the best way to go for most applications that require AA batteries.

02-09-2012, 06:57 PM	#22
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	Sanyo XX is the new king.

02-09-2012, 06:58 PM	#23
dgaies Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Maryland / Washington DC Posts: 3,917	Originally posted by wlachan Sanyo XX is the new king. I haven't personally used them, but I hear lots of good things about them. Plus they have a cool logo on them

02-10-2012, 12:18 AM	#24
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by RKKS08 @ RobA_Oz "Although alkaline cells are rated at 1.5 volts and NiMH cells at 1.2 volts, during discharge the alkaline voltage eventually drops below that of NiMH. This is particularly true for high drain applications, where the voltage of even a fresh alkaline battery can be lower than a NiMH battery while under a load. Furthermore, NiMH batteries offer a flatter discharge curve, particularly at higher current draw." From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93metal_hydride_battery This should answer your question. There you will also find information about LSD/nonLSD NiMH cells. Eneloops are of the LSD type (among other differences) and their voltage does not give in as much on high current drain as the nonLSD types ("high capacity" cells). You should keep in mind that a DSLR in some situations needs a very high current - using an external power supply, in tests the K10D used up to 1.8A when saving to the SD card. Thanks for the explanation, although I was more concerned that some people seemed to think (or, at least, gave me the impression) that the use of alkalines could contribute to the damage experienced by the OP. What you say indicates that this should not be the case.

02-10-2012, 08:13 PM	#25
cfraz Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 521	My K200D had a main board failure also. Repair quote from CRIS was under $300 if I remember correctly. It was just 1 or 2 months out of warranty, so I called Pentax and they graciously reduced the repair charge 15% or so. Repair took about 4 weeks. The camera was absolutely faultless before the main board died - I could access some menu items and the SD card but couldn't fire the shutter - and it's been faultless since.

02-11-2012, 12:49 PM	#26
tuggie76 Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,215	Originally posted by tuggie76 I used to use rechargeables but found they didn't last very long and couldn't keep enough charged ones around! It was easier to just slip a new set in. I'll try a set of eneloops and see how they work out. Tuggie76 So I went to Blacks to buy a set of Eneloops for$19.95, turns out they were on sale for$9.95!!!! I used them today and shot about 100 photos, so far so good.Now to get some more beore the sale ends! Tuggie76

02-11-2012, 01:27 PM	#27
kkoether Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Huber Heights, OH, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 731	Originally posted by tuggie76 So I went to Blacks to buy a set of Eneloops for$19.95, turns out they were on sale for$9.95!!!! I used them today and shot about 100 photos, so far so good.Now to get some more beore the sale ends! Tuggie76 Tuggie76, Make sure you use a good charger to charge those Eneloop's. At the very least buy a set of Eneloop's with a charger included. I've had issues trying to charge Eneloop's with cheap generic chargers. A lot of people recommend the Maha and LaCrosse chargers. I use the standard Eneloop charger and have had no problems going that route.

02-11-2012, 02:56 PM	#29
kkoether Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Huber Heights, OH, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 731	Originally posted by tuggie76 I thought I'd read thet they can be charged by any AA charger, I have a Panasonic BQ-390 that I'd hoped would work. Tuggie76 It may, I'm just going off of personal experience. I've seen people that were unhappy with Eneloop's and it turned out the be what they were using to charge them. I had an Energizer charger that I used with my old point and shoot. It charged the NiCad's just fine but if I tried to charge my Eneloop's I could barely get 100 or so shots out of them. Something to think about the first time you try your charger with the Eneloop's. It may work just fine.

02-11-2012, 05:31 PM	#30
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	I've had no problems with cheap generic chargers, but I use my good one when possible just to be safe. Note that the cells as sold are probably not fully charged, so don't expect to get the same 500 or more shots from them, as you would if they had been charged more fully and recently.