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02-22-2012, 09:12 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
Man, what happened to your sense of humor?




But seriously, I just might get rid of all my Pentax gear and start over with something else just for change - if selling stuff wasn't such a major pain in the ass. With all the haggling, packaging, shipping etc. involved, I'd probably rather just dump them.
Funny, I was going to ask you the same thing - those comments about stains and AF are "well worn" as they say.


And joking aside - they are just cameras and Pentax is just a brand. Buy what you need to get the job done or what makes you happy. I added Panasonic M43 to my kit in 2010 for video. If M43 can evolve to K-5 levels of performance wrt to IQ, I'd consider leaving Pentax altogether. Well, I'd still keep my MX and M50/1.7...

02-22-2012, 09:28 AM   #17
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QuoteQuote:
What i like is that he points why some of the theories used to demonstrate why a 36Mp is "ridicoulous" are as you say "pointless"...and you do not need to have your own research to be able to do that.
You don't need your own research to discuss your "theory of the universe" as in "completely devoid of any real world relevance.."

From another thread...

Photons are signal. When the signal gets spread around to more receptors (pixels) . You get a higher noise to signal ratio.. so smaller pixels doesn't mean more signal...usually it means more noise. That being said there are so many other factors involved it's hard to say anything will be true, just that all other things being equal, they will be true. Immediately after saying that you have to put in the caveat, all things are never equal. Therein lies the problem. The only way you can conclusively say any smaller pixel is better than any larger pixel for signal to noise is to post comparative images. All the various theories about why a smaller pixel might be just as good.. are just speculation until there's an example. And even then we don't care about the theory. All we want to know is what camera will give us the best result in a given situation, and that has to be determined empirically. Theory is nice, but until someone finds a way to effectively put it into practice, it means nothing to the photographer.

Have you seen a smaller sensor out perform a larger one.. sensors of the same era? The images from the new Nikon D800 look really good, not good enough to give up my K20D because right now, I just don't need images that large. I've never owned one of those huge cameras that they put in planes or satellites to produce images of the earth either. If anyone ever wants to give me a contract that needs images that size, they are going to pay me enough to buy the equipment I need. There's absolutely no reason to keep something generating that kind of file size on hand.
02-22-2012, 09:50 AM   #18
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DxO Labs has a good article based on their own research on why more pixels does not mean more noise (on the contrary!).
02-22-2012, 09:52 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Therein lies the problem. The only way you can conclusively say any smaller pixel is better than any larger pixel for signal to noise is to post comparative images. All the various theories about why a smaller pixel might be just as good.. are just speculation until there's an example. And even then we don't care about the theory. All we want to know is what camera will give us the best result in a given situation, and that has to be determined empirically
I completely agree...
(although theories, are still fun..and people argue because they like to..i know i do even if my knowledge level in this area is lacking and that in all honesty i should remain silent till real world data comes and shows us what the real thing is capable of).

The square FF sensor would mean something so different that i think it would find it's own particular fanclub (just as foveon sensors have achieved..and in heir case without real notable image differences), and maybe edge quality wouldn't be so thouroughly tested and demanded...maybe the different image shape/format could be considered altogether a new thing and considered in it's own value and with it's own advantages.

02-22-2012, 11:51 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeztastic Quote
I want to see a square sensor, 35x35mm, so that the whole image circle is recorded. DA lenses could also be used. The design of the camera could be handled by Marc Newson or similar, and could be made 'square' - breaking the mould of conventional DSLRs.

The square format is coming back in again, and the posibility of capturing an actual circle from DA lenses is intriguing.
Camera lenses designed for 35mm film won't cover a 35mm x 35mm sensor.

A 35mm film frame is nominally 35mm x 24mm. The diagonal of the frame (the largest dimension to be covered, hence the diameter of the image circle) is about 42.5mm. The diagonal of a 35mm x 35mm frame is 49.5mm.

I guess you could design the body so the lens would be farther from the sensor, thus increasing the size of the image circle, but wouldn't that cause other problems?
02-22-2012, 12:45 PM   #21
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I like the idea of various viewfinder options (eye-level, waist-level, etc.). Perhaps a "video port" arrangement where you "plug in" your viewfinder of choice.

Two shutter release buttons (one on top, one on the front face)?

With regards to what Full Frame is; Is it not just a bigger rectangle (36x24mm) and than APS-C and not square?

For an equivalent area of coverage to a Full Frame but shaped as a square, that square would be just over 29x29mm.

One thing about pixels: it is not about how many overall there are but rather pixel density (i.e. how many per mm (either horizontally or vertically)). Higher densities result in higher resolution and software written to manage the sensor signal would have to compensate for any noise factors.

Finally (for now) what about going to a CCD instead of a CMOS?

One more thing - a built in phone/web browser (an IPhone in every K3 - team up with Apple) so you can send your pictures home or to whomever wirelessly and also browse the web in your viewfinder, etc. (Iphones I find are useful for photographing my ear drum).

They might as well throw in a heating device so you can iron your tie before a meeting too.

Last edited by JVi; 02-22-2012 at 01:20 PM.
02-22-2012, 12:54 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBecker Quote
Camera lenses designed for 35mm film won't cover a 35mm x 35mm sensor.

A 35mm film frame is nominally 35mm x 24mm. The diagonal of the frame (the largest dimension to be covered, hence the diameter of the image circle) is about 42.5mm. The diagonal of a 35mm x 35mm frame is 49.5mm.

I guess you could design the body so the lens would be farther from the sensor, thus increasing the size of the image circle, but wouldn't that cause other problems?
Also, because of the geometry, each wafer would yield less sensors if they were square, increasing the price... Interesting idea, though.
02-22-2012, 01:01 PM   #23
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Unique?
Put an XLR connection in it.
Removable LCD, not just tiltable one.
Dual Tripod sockets (like the 645)
Dual Hot Shoe connectors - Flash/GPS/Mic - that's 3 connections right there!
BluTooth/Wifi/IR
Heaphone out (Nikon has).
Some kind of 3D capability.
Hot swap battery capability.
Scriptable Firmware.
Internal SSHD (Solid State Hard Drive)
2K Video.

Basically it would not take much to do something better/different.

02-22-2012, 01:36 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
Some kind of 3D capability.
Dual K-mounts and dual sensors? A camera body for hopeless LBA cases?

I agree with you though, the options to do something unique/special are lots to pick from.

An option to lock up the IR and/or AA filter would also be really cool. Engineering nightmare off course, but cool.

Last edited by Clavius; 02-22-2012 at 01:42 PM.
02-22-2012, 01:40 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Dual K-mounts and dual sensors? A camera body for hopeless LBA cases?
Once Pentax offered a 3D adapter ( I own one), but because of the crop factor of APS-C, it's useless. With a FF, I can use it again. It would be nice for Pentax to re-release a FF camera, and have an automatic JPS file format in addition to JPG or RAW/DNG.

Betcha didn't know Pentax did stuff like that eh?

02-22-2012, 01:42 PM   #26
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The Stereo Adapter "D" was made, but I never saw one for sale ANYWHERE.
02-22-2012, 02:03 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
The Stereo Adapter "D" was made, but I never saw one for sale ANYWHERE.
Within the last year I saw one on eBay. Didn't see the final price. Also once saw a guy offering 6 Monoculars NIB (adapter to turn a lens into a telescope; essentially T6-2x TC coupled to a K VF critical focus magnifier) - forgot to bid, dammit.
02-22-2012, 02:24 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Within the last year I saw one on eBay. Didn't see the final price. Also once saw a guy offering 6 Monoculars NIB (adapter to turn a lens into a telescope; essentially T6-2x TC coupled to a K VF critical focus magnifier) - forgot to bid, dammit.
I have one of those Monocular converters - in the original box. It took me YEARS to get one. One of my all-time-Pentax-unicorns!
02-22-2012, 03:09 PM   #29
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Full frame is attractive for different sorts of photography. Landscape shooters would trade high-ISO performance, fast autofocus, fast shooting and processing, and wide lens selection for high image quality at low ISO. Such a camera could be relatively low priced, even lacking an optical viewfinder if live view were well-executed. Later, Pentax could offer a second, higher-price body for action and low-light shooters, along with the fast primes and long lenses such photographers demand.
02-22-2012, 03:35 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
Scriptable Firmware.
I really dig this one!
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