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02-23-2012, 06:43 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That's what I've been saying. An affordable prosumer / consumor FF camera would in itself already be very unique. There is almost no competition in that area; it's a free niche for Pentax to settle itself in. Once there, it can always expand later on.
It's also a niche you can expect canikon to fill by the time the next range of FF cameras comes to market if not before (they of course will do it by making crippled bodies missing features the d4's and d800's have to protest the high price models. This is a win for Pentax because the prosumer/consumer model will be their high end so no need to leave off things like full mag alloy construction, hi level WR etc

02-23-2012, 04:36 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That's what I've been saying. An affordable prosumer / consumor FF camera would in itself already be very unique. There is almost no competition in that area; it's a free niche for Pentax to settle itself in. Once there, it can always expand later on.
Doubt they can release a FF that is cheaper than a Sony alpha850....and we all know that even at that amazing price they didn't get the expected results...the FF market is still dominated by Canikon.
PS: Sony is way bigger than Ricoh (even in this harsh times where it's value has plumeted like monthy python's "flying" sheep), and do not depend on a 3rd party outside their economic conglomerate for their sensors...
02-23-2012, 08:36 PM   #48
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Pentax won't gain any sort of a foothold until they have secured a source for quality sensors without getting hosed. Ricoh may very well consider buying a producer or starting one themselves if the really want to play.
02-23-2012, 08:41 PM   #49
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They could've bought Kodak too but... I guess that would've been too much?

02-23-2012, 08:56 PM - 1 Like   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Coeurdechene Quote
They can't because of market share and cost...they can't because market share and Nikon/Canon dominance over the market that consumes those cameras. I doubt pentax can release a pro grade FF at an affordable price (and that's the only scenario where the potential gains might outweight the cost). Pentax is far from the features included in a pro grade body (state of the art AF, good flash system...) and unless they break in an outstanding way the price barrier the only ones who will consider buying one are the pentax enthusiasts, wich is a dim market.
First, "pro grade FF at an affordable price" is an oxymoron; go buy an affordable supercar.

Stop making excuses for lackadaisical leadership in Pentax. The gap in specs between Pentax and the competition has been shrinking with every release, until they stopped releasing cameras. Sales bring revenue. Revenue funds R&D. R&D creates new products. Marketing sells products. Rinse, repeat. And Ricoh has the capital to make it happen.

Pentax doesn't need to produce a direct competitor to the Nikon D4 or Canon 1D in order to be competitive in the market. Pentax needs only to bring a camera, two would be nice, that build on the successes with the K-5 and K-r, and improve upon the weaknesses, and market them. Push them to distributors with performance based incentives. Advertise in the mainstream media: internet/social, print and television. And be ruthless and relentless doing so. You can't win in the marketplace if you aren't in the marketplace. f/8 and be there.

QuoteQuote:
So pentax's business decision to appear as something entirely different makes perfect sense...they are a niche brand that is trying to avoid a harsh direct competition with Canikon offering things those brands do not offer (efficient, rugged, reasonably priced, small Apsc DSLRs, and premium glass optimized for those apsc at a lower price than the top end canikon glass...or the Q or a mirrorless with a bigger sensor than those of the competition).
Horse Hockey. Leica is a "niche brand". Niche means highly specialized, tailored to a very small audience. Pentax is a mainstream camera and sport optics company with offerings from binoculars and spotting scopes to point-and-shoot cameras to semi-pro SLR cameras to professional grade medium format digital cameras. Their "niche" is what exactly?

Ricoh, the new parent company, is large enough they have plenty of available capital to get the Pentax brand name out in the public's eye and start taking attention away from Nikon and Canon both. In the consumer markets first, and then after a few more successes start taking Canikon to task in the commercial markets. If they would just start putting out a consistent line of solid equipment backed up by reliable, efficient, and expedient support services.
02-24-2012, 03:39 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Venturi Quote
First, "pro grade FF at an affordable price" is an oxymoron; go buy an affordable supercar.

Stop making excuses for lackadaisical leadership in Pentax. The gap in specs between Pentax and the competition has been shrinking with every release, until they stopped releasing cameras. Sales bring revenue. Revenue funds R&D. R&D creates new products. Marketing sells products. Rinse, repeat. And Ricoh has the capital to make it happen.

Pentax doesn't need to produce a direct competitor to the Nikon D4 or Canon 1D in order to be competitive in the market. Pentax needs only to bring a camera, two would be nice, that build on the successes with the K-5 and K-r, and improve upon the weaknesses, and market them. Push them to distributors with performance based incentives. Advertise in the mainstream media: internet/social, print and television. And be ruthless and relentless doing so. You can't win in the marketplace if you aren't in the marketplace. f/8 and be there.

Horse Hockey. Leica is a "niche brand". Niche means highly specialized, tailored to a very small audience. Pentax is a mainstream camera and sport optics company with offerings from binoculars and spotting scopes to point-and-shoot cameras to semi-pro SLR cameras to professional grade medium format digital cameras. Their "niche" is what exactly?

Ricoh, the new parent company, is large enough they have plenty of available capital to get the Pentax brand name out in the public's eye and start taking attention away from Nikon and Canon both. In the consumer markets first, and then after a few more successes start taking Canikon to task in the commercial markets. If they would just start putting out a consistent line of solid equipment backed up by reliable, efficient, and expedient support services.
Can't agree with you more! Great post. But I want to add something to you last point:

In Ricoh's MFP/copier/printer market, Canon is the great competitor nowadays. And Ricoh is doing a pretty good job keeping it's head up. The underlying reason for buying Pentax is of course to open up another attack on Canon. Totally the oposite of Pentax current strategy.

Pentax under Hoya, was forced to settle with keeping a low profile. They couldn't go head on with the other brands. Little or no resources, funding, marketing or support from Hoya. They were forced to use a defensive strategy. Although I still think they did pretty well, under the circumstances.

So times have changed for the better. But some time and patience are needed for a company to change it's entire direction. Everything needs to be analysed, plans have to be made, businesscases have to be built. Entire strategies and tactics have to be reviewed, approved and implemented. And not only those of new product developement, because that's only a tiny piece of the entire operation.

I think we're going to be very happy with Ricoh's future plans. And I think that people who jump ship early and sell off all their Pentax glass and equipment are going to have regrets, even if they deny those regrets.

Last edited by Clavius; 02-24-2012 at 03:58 AM.
02-24-2012, 05:14 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I think we're going to be very happy with Ricoh's future plans. And I think that people who jump ship early and sell off all their Pentax glass and equipment are going to have regrets, even if they deny those regrets.
True..if you are invested in the system just keep it...it has very capable cameras that'll let you hold for the LONG RUN...still not sure about the FF anytime soon.
They got their hands full with the 645D, wich is the attemp to snag part of the studio professional market dominated by Hasselblad, and to a minor extent by some high resolution very pricey models like the nikon D3x. I'm pretty sure they have to concentrate in consolidationg a lens line for that camera before they jump into another pro-grade camera and another lens line.

QuoteOriginally posted by Venturi Quote
Niche means highly specialized, tailored to a very small audience.
Well Pentax line of cameras seem like that to me...not to the degree of Leica, but still. They've been releasing what the competition does not offer, and if you look at the lens roadmap it seems Aps-c is their line of choice for the time being.
Ricoh can compete, they have a succesful business but they aren't big enough to do, in a short period of time, what would be necessary to enter the FF section of the marketin a competitive manner.
I'm not saying they will never release a FF model...i'm saying that they wil continue with the "old" strategy while they try to widen their market share in the consumer section with solid cameras and good glass at a competitive price. Their take on the pro market is the 645D...i hope i'm wrong but i doubt we will see the FF line in what is a long period of time for some of us. I need a pro camera now not in 5 years (and not sure if 5 years is the time they'll need).
I'll get me a set from Canikon while i wait...if in some years they do deliver a proficient camera at a better price or with a performance that suits me better i'm sure i'll consider getting it (i'm still amazed at my kx and what it can do for the price i bought it...it's so much better than the canikon corresponding models in the price scale, i like in-body SR, and when i've tried the k5 i've had a good feeling...and i've liked a lot it's rugedness and compactness).
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