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03-24-2012, 05:15 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by causey Quote
If it's going to be your first system, either camera will overwhelm you. Since you don't know how to use a dslr, you'll probably accuse the camera for the poor quality of you pics. (It happens a lot.) Go with a K-r or similar.

On another hand, flickr isn't the place to visit for representative pics, because simply everybody who has a camera posts pics there (regardless of how skillful they are). Pixel-peeper.com (mentioned above) is much better.
Dunno - just set everything on 'green' and the camera does it all - then the capability is there as you learn yourself. It's a question of knowing your own character - if you are into buying the latest thing every 12 months then yes, get a cheaper camera and then 12 months down the line whatever takes you fancy then. But if you don't have itchy pockets then the K5 (or 7000) is a camera that is already pretty much at the limit of what an APS sensor is capable of with current lens technology and in 10 years it will still be taking beautiful pictures - next years new toy will no doubt have more bells and whistles but I doubt it'll be fundamentally better. However if you buy an entry level camera, in 12 months you may want features and flexibility the K5 offers now.

03-24-2012, 06:10 AM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by lnb14 Quote
Jase036, first pic is greattt. Did you use a tripod ?
Nope, Don't normally use tripod for portrait work unless I have a specific need like I'm shooting with longer exposure times which is not a good idea when shooting portraits because people move. Both images were shot handheld.

QuoteOriginally posted by lnb14 Quote
All, specially Jase and Ross, as far as I know, focus in an image depends on both AF and shake reduction systems. When manual focus is used, then it is about shake.

A few years ago I was almost getting K-x,but as I remember there were bad reviews on SR performance, and personally I saw many out of focus images.
Not focus per se but rather image sharpness is affected by focus, subject movement and camera movements. SR will help you with camera movements only, improper focus or subject movement will not be corrected in any way by SR. But to be honest I don't rely much on SR because of the type of photography I do. My passion is landscape and nature, I also enjoy macro photography, but commercial, portrait and social event photography is what pays the bill and allows me to continue with my passion of landscapes and nature. Most of the time I use SR for social events, and even then I rely more on the K-5's awesome low noise capabilities and fast glass.

For landscapes and nature I use a tripod about 98% of the time, so I turn off SR, and I probably shoot with manual focus about 75% of the time.
About manual focus, I'm like Ross, I'm not a fan of Live View, unless my camera is is some awkward position and I can't get to the viewfinder, I do know that you can magnify in live view to confirm focus, but usually I just use the viewfinder and use the focus confirmation from the AF system (yes, even in manual focus the AF system will iluminate the corresponding focus point when it locks focus) and of course I can "see" the image is in focus; I've gotten quite a bit of manual focus lens experience under my belt and you just "know" when it's focused. Also for lansdcape work I use a lot of hyperfocal distance so you kinda know what's gonna be in focus and what isn't.

All in all my best advice to you would be to stop fretting about the camera, get the one that suits your style. I love the size and weight, the sealing and the dinamic range of my K-5 for my landscape work, and love the low noise high ISO for social stuff. My only wish was that it could sync with flash at higher shutter speeds (like 1/250 s or even 1/320 like some Nikon gear) for portrait work, but it suits me just fine as is.
However, before the K-5 I had a K200D and vefore that a K110D and even a film K1000 and I have gotten what are IMHO great photos despite them being "inferior" cameras to both the K-5 and the D7000.
If you take a look at my photos at Jase Photography I doubt you could point out which photo was taken with which camera.

Just get a camera, get the best lens/lenses you can afford, get a good tripod (don't skimp on this if you are going to do landscape work, trust me) and go out there and start making photos!
Read books, take courses, browse and ask questions on the forum. Keep learning the techniques as you develop your own personal style and just have fun. The awesome thing about digital is that you can see right away what you did wrong and then fix it.
Henri Carter Bresson said "Your first 10,000 photos are your worst" so don't sweat the micro differences between 2 camera systems, just shoot, make mistakes then correct them and move on.
03-24-2012, 06:25 AM   #33
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The thing is, if you have not use any dslr before, you will need quite some practice to get shots like those two guys you refer to. You won't get shots like those right out of the box.
Camera is one thing, skill and vision set the different.... just buy one that you like/ meet your budget and have fun!
03-24-2012, 07:05 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Geoff H Quote
Dunno - just set everything on 'green' and the camera does it all
The full automatic mode are really not good with DSLR, it's better to get a high-end compact camera, those have far better full automatic mode and will probably give better photos as well in those modes.

I started photography with the K10D and got the DFA100 macro and the DA40 fast afterwards.
Yeah an advance camera has a steep learning curve but not more then for example the Kr, the Kr does have more full automatic modes to support beginners but when you start shooting in Av or Tv then the difference between learning is the same. Actually an advance camera like the K5 might be better then because you've more manual/direct control then with the beginner cameras so it might be easier, it certainly is easier in M mode.

So if someone really wants to learn photography and want to control most aspects then i don't see why a Kr might be better.

03-24-2012, 08:23 AM   #35
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Guys you are great.
Ross, I did not know with manual focus there is focus confirmation in viewfinder. I thought we should recognize focus and that is why I asked about zoom window in live niew. Size and price are of course important for me too.
Chris, as Geoff said, I will not change camera every year, not even every three years. That is why I wanna get one that will be adequate more than a few years.
ANvh, thanks for mentioning pixel-peeper. I did not hear of it before. Thanks for the photo too, I think one problem with focus that I have is shallow depth of field. Most photos with shallow depth of field, specially close ups look kinda out of focus to me, which is because there is very narrow region that is in focus. It is because I am accustomed to point and shoot images.
Jase, I think you read my mind. You answer some of my questions before I mention them, thanks a lot.
So the decision is made, it is K-5, thanks to your comments.
03-24-2012, 08:38 AM   #36
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I would choose a cheaper camera and better lens if you only have $1500 to spend. There's no point in getting camera like k5 with cheap glass that will take worse photos than kr with better glass.
The lenses, knowledge and skill will make much bigger difference to your photos than a camera body (I still have lots to learn).
Here's a photo for you with k-5 and have taken it with FA 31mm Limited lens and remote manual flash for fill (to balance the strong sun in australia, especially since the face would be very dark without it).



Another one with DA 21mm Limited.

03-24-2012, 08:48 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nuff Quote
I would choose a cheaper camera and better lens if you only have $1500 to spend. There's no point in getting camera like k5 with cheap glass that will take worse photos than kr with better glass.
Well, the OP has already said that he's not interested in upgrading his camera every year. And if he has $1500 to spend, he still has $500+ for lenses.

Last edited by luftfluss; 03-24-2012 at 10:23 AM.
03-24-2012, 09:12 AM   #38
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Henri Carter Bresson said "Your first 10,000 photos are your worst"

I dunno. Invariably when I get some new equipment I get a couple shots that blow me away. Then it goes seriously downhill and I have to figure out detail by detail what I'm doing wrong, find the sweet spots, etc. After a few months I start getting some decent shots again.

A plot I say.

03-24-2012, 09:24 AM   #39
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I think K-5 with Tamron 17-50 is good for start. The lens is not like prime limited ones, but it cover an useful focal range, and it is not expensives. Most reviews say it is a good lens,
although there is the BF/FF problem, which hopefully can be corrected with K-5 AF adjustment. I will receive mine in a few days.

I was thinking about primes instead of 17-50 too, but I think it is not practical to change lenses to cover different ranges. I have no experience but I think if someone goes out with a prime, he or she should be using it for a long time. It should not be practical to change from one prime to another constantly to cover different focal lengths. Please correct me if I am wrong.
03-24-2012, 09:27 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Henri Carter Bresson said "Your first 10,000 photos are your worst"

I dunno. Invariably when I get some new equipment I get a couple shots that blow me away. Then it goes seriously downhill and I have to figure out detail by detail what I'm doing wrong, find the sweet spots, etc. After a few months I start getting some decent shots again.

A plot I say.
Heh, I've noticed the same thing.
03-24-2012, 09:28 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by kamisu Quote
I was thinking about primes instead of 17-50 too, but I think it is not practical to change lenses to cover different ranges. I have no experience but I think if someone goes out with a prime, he or she should be using it for a long time. It should not be practical to change from one prime to another constantly to cover different focal lengths. Please correct me if I am wrong.
It's personal preference. Some people don't mind changing lenses in the field, others hate it.
03-24-2012, 09:35 AM   #42
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The other day my wife and I went out and shot some images with the K-x the K20D and the K-5. What made us like one image more than the other was not the camera body. We even went through the effort of using exactly the same tripod position and the same lens at the same setting. It was subtle changes in the light that made the difference. We are using the K-5 as much as possible because of the pixel count... and I'm sure there would be situations where one camera would shine over one of the others. We are expecting to see an improvement in high contrast low light shots with the K-5, but most of the time other things besides the camera body make the difference. I look at pictures taken with my *ist and I think "man, I wish I still had that camera."

At this point we are over 10 years into the availability of consumer level DSLRs... no one (of the majour camera makers) is making bad cameras.
03-24-2012, 10:10 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Well, the OP has already said that he's not interested in upgrading his camera every year. And if he was $1500 to spend, he still has $500+ for lenses.
+1
He should be able to buy a good standard lens for that money.
Tamron 17-50 is already named
Sigma/pentax 17-70 is also an option and the Pentax 18-135.
The later three give you just a bit more range which make them a bit more handy.
The 18-135 isn't the sharpest lens but decent enough, certainly for an all-round lens and the lens is a joy to use that also certainly counts for something.
03-24-2012, 10:37 AM   #44
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+1

QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
The full automatic mode are really not good with DSLR, it's better to get a high-end compact camera, those have far better full automatic mode and will probably give better photos as well in those modes.

I started photography with the K10D and got the DFA100 macro and the DA40 fast afterwards.
Yeah an advance camera has a steep learning curve but not more then for example the Kr, the Kr does have more full automatic modes to support beginners but when you start shooting in Av or Tv then the difference between learning is the same. Actually an advance camera like the K5 might be better then because you've more manual/direct control then with the beginner cameras so it might be easier, it certainly is easier in M mode.

So if someone really wants to learn photography and want to control most aspects then i don't see why a Kr might be better.
I think that the OP has made a good choice by going with a K-5. The current price is killer. It is a good bet that they will spend less money on an overall system than going with a different brand if they will be staying with the aps-c format. I think that getting a good book and using a scientific method for controlling the settings will help in understanding the camera's learning curve, whether it is a K-5, or a K-r, or something else. Shooting in one mode, using one method of metering, with one way of handling AF points until one realizes what each variable controls rather than changing things willy nilly is best. One might be surprised how quickly they will fall into their favorite set up. Using the same idea for controlling jpeg functions will also help if camera jpegs are important. I have found the Pentax learning curve to be fairly easy to negotiate - all things considered. Wish I could say the same about the software that I use at work!

BTW, the photographer for the first photo that the OP posted absolutely nailed the DOF IMHO. Obviously the lens and composition had more to do with that than the camera body.

Last edited by lammie200; 03-24-2012 at 10:43 AM.
03-24-2012, 12:38 PM   #45
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I was already quite heavily in photoshop with digital painting so i actually went straight to RAW.
I think i shot 10 JPG's with my DSLR's, i don't mind the post processing, i actually believe it's just as a big part then taking the photo.

And indeed the learning curve isn't that steep, you just need to get past the first 1,000 photos. If you survive that you probably have gained enough knowledge to understand the basics of the exposure triangle and then the fun begins since things become easier and the photos you get more rewarding.

Also its good to know that even at a high level it's still sometimes hit and miss but that ratio gets better though. =]
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