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03-29-2012, 08:36 AM   #16
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Cards are not magnetic media- they are flash based.

That said, OS differences (unless your camera runs Win/MacOS ;-) mean it is safer to format in camera....

03-29-2012, 09:06 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
Probably you misunderstand me. The card must be formatted once before it can be used. Any further formatting is strictly optional.
.......
Some use the format command to erase the card, it's not a requirement, but if that is the way one wants to do it's OK.
Aha! I got you - I think we may have had our wires crossed on this -
I always format the card in the camera before use -
this is a way to clear/erase the card.

So to correctly say what I was trying to convey -
a card once formatted should be compatible with any other camera.

However
if the card contains existing images from another camera -
and if the filenames/folders have the same convention as the camera using it
and if the filename number is greater than that of the last shot of the camera in use
then there is the possibility that the filenames would follow the sequence of the photos (from the other camera) on the card.

To clear the card one can either erase all or use format.

JFYI - the SDA - SD Association - the organization that sets the standards for SD cards - has a SD formatter -

SD Formatter 3.1 for SD/SDHC/SDXC - SD Association
03-29-2012, 10:12 AM   #18
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SD card formatting

This has been quite the lively discussion.
03-29-2012, 10:17 AM   #19
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Shoulds are funny things, they are what we want the world to be like but often are not accurate descriptions of the actual world itself. In this case it may well be that cards formatted once in any computer SHOULD work in any camera but my own experience says that this is simply not the case in reality. Therefore, I format cards in the actual camera that will be writing to that card each and every time and since beginning this process and following it consistently have had not unreadable files on SD cards. Again, theories are wonderful constructs which are very easily killed by actual data.

03-29-2012, 11:36 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
So to correctly say what I was trying to convey -
a card once formatted should be compatible with any other camera.
However
if the card contains existing images from another camera -
and if the filenames/folders have the same convention as the camera using it
and if the filename number is greater than that of the last shot of the camera in use
then there is the possibility that the filenames would follow the sequence of the photos (from the other camera) on the card.
Absolutely correct, there is a possibility this would happen. I don't have a problem with this, it's the way I want it to work. But that's just me, others may not be so happy and you are right to mention this imo.

QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
To clear the card one can either erase all or use format.
Or one can move the files/folders from that card to the computer. (In Windows right click/drag. When you drop a menu pops up with move as an option) This is what I do because for me it gets the job done reliably with the least amount of involvement. I start reviewing the images on the hard drive while the computer is moving the remaining images. There is nothing more for me to do but remove the card. This is one other way.
03-29-2012, 11:54 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
Absolutely correct, there is a possibility this would happen. I don't have a problem with this, it's the way I want it to work. But that's just me, others may not be so happy and you are right to mention this imo.
cool! glad we at least understand each other
It's actually something that upsets me,
as I use the filename numbering to do my shot count to record battery usage.

QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
Or one can move the files/folders from that card to the computer. (In Windows right click/drag. When you drop a menu pops up with move as an option) This is what I do because for me it gets the job done reliably with the least amount of involvement. I start reviewing the images on the hard drive while the computer is moving the remaining images. There is nothing more for me to do but remove the card. This is one other way.
That's pretty efficient, hadn't even thought of that -

But I'm just a bit "paranoid" about losing photos -
so I do the regular upload (which is a copy) -
then backup to external drive -
only after I have processed that set of photos
do I use format to clear the card.
03-29-2012, 12:58 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
cool! glad we at least understand each other
Me too.

While on the subject of the move command I should mention this though it has little to do with cards. When you move files on the same logical drive, c: for example, the file does not move on the actual media, only the directory entry changes, much faster then a copy and delete. Of course moving to another logical or physical drive is effectively a copy and delete operation, it can't be anything else.

Last edited by riff; 03-29-2012 at 01:10 PM.
03-29-2012, 01:38 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
While on the subject of the move command I should mention this though it has little to do with cards. When you move files on the same logical drive, c: for example, the file does not move on the actual media, only the directory entry changes, much faster then a copy and delete. Of course moving to another logical or physical drive is effectively a copy and delete operation, it can't be anything else.
Yes, on Windoz - the default between separate devices is a copy -
but on the same device it defaults to "move" -
which as you say is merely change in the properties/pointers
and not an actual physical move.

So between devices a move has to be explicitly specified,
and it is physically two operations
(albeit single selection to choose the operation)

and on the same device a copy has to be explicitly specified -
otherwise it defaults to a "move"

03-29-2012, 01:43 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Shoulds are funny things, they are what we want the world to be like but often are not accurate descriptions of the actual world itself. In this case it may well be that cards formatted once in any computer SHOULD work in any camera but my own experience says that this is simply not the case in reality. Therefore, I format cards in the actual camera that will be writing to that card each and every time and since beginning this process and following it consistently have had not unreadable files on SD cards. Again, theories are wonderful constructs which are very easily killed by actual data.
I can't deny your experience but there is a reason that the computer may have failed to format the SD to what the camera needed if that is in fact what happened. If that is what happened it's not because the computer can not format the card correctly. Operator error is the first of many possibilities that come to mind. I assume from your nick that you are a Doctor and I assume that if you are a Doctor you are a man of science as well. You have presented no actual data so I direct you to your last sentence. Having said that what you are doing should work!

from Secure Digital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
QuoteQuote:
Most SD cards ship preformatted with one or more MBR partitions, where the first or only partition contains a file system. This lets them operate like the hard disk of a personal computer. Per the SD card specification, an SD card is formatted with MBR and the following file system:
For SDSC cards: FAT16
For SDHC cards: FAT32
For SDXC cards: exFAT
QuoteQuote:
Risks of reformatting

Reformatting an SD card with a different file system, or even with the same one, may make the card slower, or shorten its lifespan. Some cards use wear leveling, in which frequently modified blocks are mapped to different portions of memory at different times, and some wear-leveling algorithms are designed for the access patterns typical of the file allocation table on a FAT16 or FAT32 device.[58] In addition, the preformatted file system may use a cluster size that matches the erase region of the physical memory on the card; reformatting may change the cluster size and make writes less efficient.
P.S. MBR is Master Boot Record

Last edited by riff; 03-29-2012 at 01:57 PM. Reason: MBR
03-29-2012, 02:13 PM   #25
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QuoteQuote:
Most SD cards ship preformatted with one or more MBR partitions, where the first or only partition contains a file system. This lets them operate like the hard disk of a personal computer. Per the SD card specification, an SD card is formatted with MBR and the following file system:
For SDSC cards: FAT16
For SDHC cards: FAT32
For SDXC cards: exFAT
It's nice this but only use FAT32 with cameras no camera i know off uses exFAT
03-29-2012, 02:33 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
no camera i know off uses exFAT
I don't know and at the moment I don't care. I have a hard time believing any developer would claim SDXC card support and not support exFAT. This is a support nightmare in the making. If a company has the technical expertise to write the firmware in modern cameras writing the support code for exFAT would be trivial for them.

In fact I would call it down right lying to claim support for SDXC cards and not supporting exFAT since this is the official spec for SDXC cards.
03-29-2012, 04:34 PM   #27
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From:
SD Formatter 3.1 for SD/SDHC/SDXC - SD Association

03-29-2012, 05:17 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
I don't know and at the moment I don't care. I have a hard time believing any developer would claim SDXC card support and not support exFAT. This is a support nightmare in the making. If a company has the technical expertise to write the firmware in modern cameras writing the support code for exFAT would be trivial for them.

In fact I would call it down right lying to claim support for SDXC cards and not supporting exFAT since this is the official spec for SDXC cards.
SDHC and SDXC are only different on paper, hardware wise they precisely the same they use the same interface after all, so that makes it even more trivial.
So it's strange Pentax had some problems with SDXC to begin with...
Anyway most likely you don't need exFAT for the device because exFAT is from Microsoft and the license isn't free.
03-31-2012, 08:23 PM   #29
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Here is another apsect to think about.

For example I have two K-10's and when I move one card that was used into the other body that body registers the image count of the other body. When checking this afternoon with the EXIF shutter release count https://www.pentaxforums.com/pages/check-shutter-count-exif.html .
One camera body shows 6,556 and the other body shows 14,428 both counts are accurate.

Yet my image IMGP file numbers change and show that there are 16,556 actuations in the file name and the camera body retains that file number sequence structure. This also transfers to my my K-5 when the card is used in that body and the actual count on that body is 3,873. Strange nuance. But insert a card with a lower file count and the file IMGP number will still retain the higher file number. Insert a card with a higher file number than is actually with the firmware it changes the actual image numbers to the higher count and the camera retains that count for file naming. Yet the Firmware retains the actual shutter count.

Hope this makes sense. I noticed this when when my file numbers jumped up by nearly 2,000 a few months ago.
04-01-2012, 06:02 AM   #30
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I use a Kx and a Canon Powershot.

I've formatted with the Kx, the Canon and my Acer desk top and Acer laptop.

Never had an issue. Canon will just create it's own directory as will the Pentax.

What you don't want to do is delete the images from the card with a computer. It will save the UN-delete info on the card reducing the storage space.

I format the card each time after transferring the images to the PC.

YMMV
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