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04-06-2012, 09:06 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
As it interests me - goggled: Video dSLR or camcorder?

came across this article:

Four Reasons You Should Buy a Camcorder - CamcorderInfo.com

may seem like a biased source -
but the article is pretty good.

Less bias perhaps:
dSLR Video (Steve's Digicams)

and an older article:
Video DSLRs vs Camcorders (Luminous Landscapes)

Is sensor heating still an issue for recording longer video clips on dSLRs?

Edit to Add -
I guess heat may still be an issue:
The truth about overheating DSLRs
I have the Panasonic TM700 3MOS 1080p60 camcorder that is the same as the top rated HDC-SDT750 camcorder but without the 3D lens option. My Panasonic GH2 has no heating issues like many DSLRs and has better video quality than any DSLR. Large sensor 3MOS camcorders cost much more than HDSLRs.
My TM700 & K-7 :


My GH2 with Voigtlander Nokton 25mm F0.95 :


04-06-2012, 09:48 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by sebberry Quote
The K-5's video capability is geared more for those who want to take family videos at Christmas than those who want to shoot cinematic productions.
I'd argue that's exactly why you should *not* be shooting family videos w/ an HDSLR (any of them, including the $3500 5DmkIII that was just released).
It's like using a jackhammer to pry open a jar of jam. You can do it, but it's just not a great thing to do.

A P&S works better, but better yet, a camcorder which was designed for videos at x-mas. For family videos, you want lots of DOF...
04-06-2012, 10:27 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by sebberry Quote
My K-5 has some intermittent and very annoying click/crackly sounds in the recorded audio, so it sounds like you made the right choice with the Canon

Pick the right tool for the job, regardless of the brand.
Sorry to hear that about the K-5, that is a bummer
I am not using the camcorder audio for my produced videos anyway, I have a dedicated audio recorder, an old Roland VS-2400CD. I record up to 9 microphones.
Maybe some day when I piano miking technique is perfected I will cut it down to few mikes.
I mix the audio in Reaper.
I have 2 video tracks for the footage, one from the Canon HG21 camcorder and the other from Canon T3i (HDSLR).
I edit the videos in Powerdirector..
04-06-2012, 10:40 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
The GH2 beats the new 5D MKII in video mode so were do you think the entry level T3i fits in ? You could turn off the touch screen function on the GH2 and it also has a great 1.5mp EVF so what is the problem ? Look into the OVF of the T3i in video mode and tell me what you see.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/181125...ideo-mode.html

BTW if you think the K-01 is bad for video without an articulated LCD then how did the 5D MKII get to be such a great DSLR for video use ?
Again, to each their own.

I would not go near a camera with a touch screen like the GH2. I have what's called "fat fingers". It's just not usable for me.
It's the same reason my cell phone has a full QWERTY keyboard, and I won't buy a phone without one.

An articulating screen is a must as far as I am concerned for video, so a 5D would not have been on my list, but the T3i made it.

04-06-2012, 10:45 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
I'm assuming madbrain is doing cinematic video...look into an add-on external screen w/ focus peaking that's at least 5"...3" is too small to see much anyways.
No, I'm just an amateur.
04-06-2012, 10:49 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by sebberry Quote
No consumer wants to walk around with an external audio recorder and deal with syncing up audio/video tracks in post-production so they can post their videos to facetube.
I'm not walking around with the audio recorder - I am recording at home with my AC-powered multi-track audio recorder.
Syncing audio & video tracks is surprisingly easy.
My audio recorder already syncs all the audio tracks together. I export all the tracks to mono WAV files.
I mix them into one stereo WAV file with Reaper.
Then in PowerDirector, I have 2 video tracks, and one audio tracks.
That's just two time alignments to make. It can be very simply done simply looking at the audio waveforms on the screen. You don't even need to listen (though it doesn't hurt to double check).
I'm surprised the software itself can't do it automatically, that's how simple the syncing is to do in post.

Now, 3D spatial alignment with two video sources, don't get me started...
04-06-2012, 10:53 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Again, to each their own.

I would not go near a camera with a touch screen like the GH2. I have what's called "fat fingers". It's just not usable for me.
You can turn the touchscreen off. The GH2 is not supposed to have such touch-friendly interface as another of the Panasonic cameras anyway.

PS I, too, hate cameras with touch screens.

Last edited by Giklab; 04-06-2012 at 10:58 PM.
04-06-2012, 11:08 PM   #38
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UnknownVt,

QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
For any single movie clip there appears to be a limitation of 4Gb file size
which for any HD video means about 11 minutes limit.

There is also a safety 29min 59sec limit (for VGA recording?) to prevent over-heating.


page 151 of Canon T3i Manual
and:

page 163

Thanks for that pointer ! I hadn't quite gotten to that page in the manual yet.
It's a bit of a bummer.

However, it looks like MagicLantern has an auto-restart mode for video on the T3i
http://geekrev.com/magic-lantern-for-canon-600dt3i-is-here/

This would still lose a few seconds of video, though, which is quite a pain for a piano recording.
However, since I'm recording with 2 cameras, then it's not as much an issue, I can just show the other camera's footage during the times the T3i will cut off ...

Now I guess I need to install Magiclantern.


Last edited by madbrain; 04-06-2012 at 11:41 PM.
04-06-2012, 11:16 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I'm not walking around with the audio recorder - I am recording at home with my AC-powered multi-track audio recorder.
Somewhat impractical when all you want is backyard videos of the dog splashing around in the pool
04-06-2012, 11:33 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Giklab Quote
I hope you do realize you were this close [ _ ] to the battery possibly taking out a chunk of your head?
How do you know that ?
The battery still hasn't exploded FYI. It's sitting on a shelf. It's not going to get charged again so I don't think it will explode.
If the risk of lithium ion battery explosion is so bad, why are those things still legal ?
Now I'm longing for an eneloop AAA cell phone battery adapter.
04-07-2012, 01:02 AM   #41
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You really should dispose of it. Certainly never attempt to charge or use it again. These batteries can cause serious injury if they explode. You wouldn't think it from looking at them. They've been known to start fires, too. I think the risk comes into play when the battery charges unevenly, or something along those lines. A defective cell perhaps. I don't remember now.

Jump to about 1:30 in the clip below. You'll see how dramatically these things explode. The ones in this clip were forced to explode by overcharging, to demonstrate the effect.

04-07-2012, 01:23 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
How do you know that ?
The battery still hasn't exploded FYI. It's sitting on a shelf. It's not going to get charged again so I don't think it will explode.
If the risk of lithium ion battery explosion is so bad, why are those things still legal ?
Now I'm longing for an eneloop AAA cell phone battery adapter.
They are legal because accidents don't happen often enough to make it a valid argument. I believe that "battery swelling" is some kind of a fsilsafe. In any case, get it off that shelf and throw it in a designated dumpster.
04-07-2012, 01:43 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Philoslothical Quote
You really should dispose of it. Certainly never attempt to charge or use it again. These batteries can cause serious injury if they explode. You wouldn't think it from looking at them. They've been known to start fires, too. I think the risk comes into play when the battery charges unevenly, or something along those lines. A defective cell perhaps. I don't remember now.

Jump to about 1:30 in the clip below. You'll see how dramatically these things explode. The ones in this clip were forced to explode by overcharging, to demonstrate the effect.

Lithium Ion Battery Explosion - YouTube
Pretty impressive (and scary) video. My cell phone battery didn't get anywhere near doubling in size like in the video. Just got a round top that makes it about 1mm higher, enough to no longer fit in the phone.
I never used it "improperly", I always charged it in the phone itself which is supposed to detect when it's charged and not overcharge the battery.
I'll be sure not to use the LiOn battery in my T3i. I got the AC adapter yesterday which is better for my indoor video shoot.

I was a bit bummed to find out that the max video length was 12 minutes out of the box with the T3I (4GB at HD resolution).
I installed magic lantern successfully and it now auto restarts the video, fortunately. I haven't measured the length of the break.

It's a bit silly for Canon to blame the limit on the file file system (FAT32). While files are indeed limited to 4GB, my 4 year old Canon HG21 camcorder can shoot video uninterrupted, it just breaks the video into multiple files.

Magic lantern also allows changing the bit rate from 0.1x to 3x. I can only record up to 1.2x with the 32GB PNY class 10 card I have . I have another class 10 card to try which is currently in the camcorder.
If anything, I may reduce the bit rate to allow for longer uninterrupted video.
04-07-2012, 01:48 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I'll be sure not to use the LiOn battery in my T3i.
There's absolutely no reason not to use it. They're good batteries (I know you think otherwise). Treated well, they're usually quite reliable, too, though their lifespan might be shorter than NiMH.

I swear by the Li-Ion batteries for my K-r. They work great, and are damn quick to charge. Last summer when I was in a shooting frenzy, I was averaging 400-500 shots from a charge, which is plenty for me. I honestly don't know how they hold up to the constant drain of video though.
04-17-2012, 02:32 AM   #45
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Philoslothical,

QuoteOriginally posted by Philoslothical Quote
There's absolutely no reason not to use it. They're good batteries (I know you think otherwise). Treated well, they're usually quite reliable, too, though their lifespan might be shorter than NiMH.
I bought a cheap ($29!) grip for the T3i . It worked great for AAs. Unfortunately didn't work with the Canon Li-On battery. The contacts in the Li-on battery tray were misaligned Afer reading some reviews of that grip on Amazon, I tried to realign them with pliers, but it ended up ruining the Canon Li-On battery, such that it won't work in the camera anymore . sigh
The Canon grip is $200+ and I didn't want to spring for that.

So now the only way I can use my T3i is with the grip + 6 AAs, or with the AC adapter. Strangely, the DC coupler for the AC adapter still works even in the faulty grip Li-on tray.

I started doing some comparisons for stills between the T3i + Canon 18-55 IS II lens, vs K200D with DA 18-250 .
I took some indoor shots in a large room with high ceiling, which is relatively well-lit (9 large 23 W ceiling CFLs). I shot as JPG with both cameras.
I was taking the same subject from the same viewpoint, and I used 18mm as focal length. I took 4 shots with each camera, at ISO 1600, 800, 400 and 100. F=3.5 for both lenses at 18mm.
The T3i shutter speeds were 1/30, 1/15, 1/10 and 1/3. The K200D speeds were 1/50, 1/25, 1/13, 1/3 .

Results :

1) The last 2 shots, at ISO 400 and 100, are noticeably blurrier on the Pentax. Seems like the SR may be working better on the Canon. That, or I shook less with the Canon somehow The cameras have different weights. I was using the T3i with grip and K200D without, but the K200D is still heavier due to materials, and the heavier lens.

2) When sizing the shot to my 2560x1600 monitor, I can't see any noise on the 1600 ISO shot from the Canon.
But I can see a lot in the 1600 ISO shot from the Pentax .
At 800, ISO I can still see a bit of noise i the Pentax shot at monitor resolution.

3) these are relatively minor differences compared to the colors. The Canon is doing a much better job. It is almost day and night; respectively. The shots from the Canon are all far brighter and the colors more realistic. Even at ISO 100 , the colors on the K200D shot look washed out.
This may be a problem with the auto white balance and the K200D not liking my CFLs. I will try to set it manually.

T3I ISO 1600 shot :



K200D ISO 1600 shot :


Looks like Blogger/Picasa isn't preserving the EXIF data unfortunately, and is scaling the pic down to something less than my screen. But the noise is still visible in the K200D shot. Look under the piano especially.
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