I bought a Canon T3i for video

Jodokast96 · 04-17-2012, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by madbrain

If the risk of lithium ion battery explosion is so bad, why are those things still legal ?
Now I'm longing for an eneloop AAA cell phone battery adapter.

Why? You don't think other battery types can't explode? Especially el cheapo crapo Chinese stuff? Stop buying garbage and use them the way they are meant to be used.

Originally posted by madbrain

But the noise is still visible in the K200D shot.

Not surprising for a camera 3 years newer and with a 2 stop ISO advantage.

madbrain · 04-17-2012, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by Jodokast96

Why? You don't think other battery types can't explode? Especially el cheapo crapo Chinese stuff? Stop buying garbage and use them the way they are meant to be used.

I was specifically talking about eneloops, which are all made in Japan.

Quote:

Not surprising for a camera 3 years newer and with a 2 stop ISO advantage.

Where did you get that 2 stop number ?

Canon T3i vs Pentax K200D

This claims the T3i's advantage is only 0.5 f-stops. That is very hard to believe according to my results. 2 f-stops like you say seems more accurate.

All this is making me reconsider whether to keep shooting stills with the K200D.

I know I cannot travel with two DSLR cameras for sure due to weight, so choices will have to be made then. I don't have decent lenses for the Canon. I sold the 50-250 on Amazon.
So the 18-55 is the only lens I have left for it at this time. The 18-55 is fine strictly for my current video needs. but not good enough for my still pictures needs. If I'm going to buy better lenses for the Canon, I'll need to sell the ones I have for Pentax, and the K200d also

I put the cameras on my postal scale yesterday - the T3i + grip + 6 AA + 18-55 was 2.5 lbs, K200D + 4 AA + 18-250 was 2.8 lbs. But somehow that was a really noticeable difference, the K200d felt much heavier.

I think I will have to take more comparison shots.

The Pentax body is definitely more rugged than the Canon.
The Canon body just looks like something that's going to break down the road.
The Canon has some interesting pluses like the ISO button, something I sorely miss on the K200D. And it seems much better IQ.

I wonder how much of this is correct :
Canon T3i vs Pentax K200D

I was surprised to learn that the K200D has a larger sensor and better color depth, .
Image quality is rated at 65.0 for the T3i and 64.0 for the K200D , ie. almost the same. This is crazy to me. Seems like there are huge differences, and not just because of the Canon's 18 MP.

As I stated above, It says that the T3i has lower noise at high ISO, but the numbers don't look very impressive .
793 ISO for the T3i, 561 ISO for the K200D . Only 0.5 f-stops ! That sure doesn't match my findings. The 1600 ISO shot from the Canon was at least as good as the 400 ISO shot from the Pentax.

That said, the snapsort page gives a good summary of the reason to choose the T3i - movies, flip-out screen, higher resolution.

Philoslothical · 04-17-2012, 05:40 PM

The 2 stops are coming from the fact that the K200D tops out at ISO 1600, and the T3i at ISO 6400 - two stops difference.

As far as comparing the scores on snapsort, I think it just measures when noise starts to show up. The small difference between them starts to make more sense with added context:

Quote:

Comparing Low Light ISO Scores

Lets compare the Nikon D700 gets a score of 2,303 ISO and the the Canon T2i (a much cheaper camera) gets a score of 784 ISO. How do these two compare?

Firstly, this means that according to the DxOMark benchmarks the D700 shoots great quality images up to 2,303 ISO, and the T2i shoots great quality images up to 748 ISO.

The difference can be expressed in f-stops, using this equation: Log2(2303/784) = 1.6 f-stops. This tells you that the D700 can get 1.6 f-stops more light than the T2i with the same image quality. For example, imagine you were shooting a subject a 800 ISO and 1/15s on the T2i, you could shoot it at approx 2,400 ISO on the D700 at 1/40s and get the same image quality, but likely get a much sharper image due to the faster shutter.

madbrain · 04-17-2012, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Philoslothical

The 2 stops are coming from the fact that the K200D tops out at ISO 1600, and the T3i at ISO 6400 - two stops difference.

Actually there is a "boost" mode up to ISO 12,800 on the t3i, so in that sense, it is 3 stops.

I did my image quality comparisons at 1,600 ISO only since that's the max that the K200D will do.

Quote:

As far as comparing the scores on snapsort, I think it just measures when noise starts to show up. The small difference between them starts to make more sense with added context:

Thanks for the context.
According to that test, I would get as much noise at 793 ISO on the T3i as 561 ISO on the K200D . But I don't think that's really correct from what I see on the screen.
The noise level seems similar between 1600 ISO on the T3i vs 400 ISO on the K200D.
Perhaps it's just due to the fact that there are more megapixels on the T3i and some noise just gets "lost" when the picture is sized to 2560x1600 (about 4 MP) ?
I haven't yet tried to pixel peep and compare at 1:1 on those images.

Oh, and if I use "tungsten light" as the white balance on the K200D, it gives a more appropriate image. All the other WB presets I tried on the K200D give this washed out look, including the 3 different fluorescent WBs.

Philoslothical · 04-17-2012, 06:29 PM

Boost ISO is done in software. For comparisons, I wouldn't even consider it a thing.

One would expect ISO 1600 on the K200D to be quite a bit worse, it always is at the high end of a given camera's range. Just because in the DxO tests noise starts to appear at the levels quoted, doesn't mean that noise scales linearly from those numbers on, I don't think. I certainly wouldn't expect it to between brands.

Originally posted by madbrain

Perhaps it's just due to the fact that there are more megapixels on the T3i and some noise just gets "lost" when the picture is sized to 2560x1600 (about 4 MP) ?

This has got to be skewing results a lot. Resizing downwards with interpolation helps a lot to clear up noise. It might give a better result at a given size, but it won't show you what the sensor is recording. Compare 1:1 crops to get a better idea what's really going on.

Jodokast96 · 04-18-2012, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by madbrain

I was specifically talking about eneloops, which are all made in Japan.

And I'm talking about the garbage Li-Ion you seem to keep buying.

madbrain · 04-19-2012, 02:11 AM

Originally posted by Jodokast96

And I'm talking about the garbage Li-Ion you seem to keep buying.

That certainly wasn't apparent given what you were quoting in response.

Anyway, most Li-on batteries are made in China. I just checked, and the original battery for my phone was made there.

The original Canon battery for my HG21 camcorder was made in Japan. I still have it, but it it completely failed last years, at 3 years.

The original Canon battery for my T3i DSLR was made in China. It failed too, but that was my fault for trying to make it work in a defective battery grip. Maybe I'll be able to fix it with a bit of solder to enlarge the one + broken contact.

The ebay seller that sold me the defective T3i MK-550D Meike grip just sent me a new one at no extra charge, without asking for the bad one back. They sent me a slightly different model, a MK-550DL with an Intervalometer on it, and is quite nice. I don't know if the Li-On battery tray is any better since I can't test it now.

madbrain · 05-04-2012, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by luftfluss

Madbrain, you can get the hotshoe covers on Ebay. FWIW, I've gone long stretches without using hotshoe covers on my various Pentaxes with no ill effects.

This would work with your Pentax to Canon issue: Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Fotodiox Lens Mount Adapter with Dandelion AF Focus Confirmation Chip, Pentax K/PK to Canon EOS Camera adapter, fits Canon EOS 1d,1ds,Mark II, III, IV, 5D, MarK II, 7D, 10D, 20D, 30D, 40D, 50D, 60D, Digital Rebel xt, xti but of course you have to use the lenses manually, and you are stuck using a wide open aperture. I've never heard of a converter that would let you adjust aperture if the lens lacks an aperture ring.

I bought said adapter and received it.
Unfortunately, it appears that the lens remains stopped all the way down (smallest aperture) by default, rather than wide open :-(
I can barely see anything through the viewfinder. I cannot compose shots, let alone manually focus.
I will contact Fotodiox to inquire about this, but I'm afraid the adapter is useless for my 2 lenses that lack aperture rings.

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04-17-2012, 06:04 AM	#46
Jodokast96 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Erial, NJ USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,134	Originally posted by madbrain If the risk of lithium ion battery explosion is so bad, why are those things still legal ? Now I'm longing for an eneloop AAA cell phone battery adapter. Why? You don't think other battery types can't explode? Especially el cheapo crapo Chinese stuff? Stop buying garbage and use them the way they are meant to be used. Originally posted by madbrain But the noise is still visible in the K200D shot. Not surprising for a camera 3 years newer and with a 2 stop ISO advantage.

04-17-2012, 05:15 PM	#47
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Originally posted by Jodokast96 Why? You don't think other battery types can't explode? Especially el cheapo crapo Chinese stuff? Stop buying garbage and use them the way they are meant to be used. I was specifically talking about eneloops, which are all made in Japan. Quote: Not surprising for a camera 3 years newer and with a 2 stop ISO advantage. Where did you get that 2 stop number ? Canon T3i vs Pentax K200D This claims the T3i's advantage is only 0.5 f-stops. That is very hard to believe according to my results. 2 f-stops like you say seems more accurate. All this is making me reconsider whether to keep shooting stills with the K200D. I know I cannot travel with two DSLR cameras for sure due to weight, so choices will have to be made then. I don't have decent lenses for the Canon. I sold the 50-250 on Amazon. So the 18-55 is the only lens I have left for it at this time. The 18-55 is fine strictly for my current video needs. but not good enough for my still pictures needs. If I'm going to buy better lenses for the Canon, I'll need to sell the ones I have for Pentax, and the K200d also I put the cameras on my postal scale yesterday - the T3i + grip + 6 AA + 18-55 was 2.5 lbs, K200D + 4 AA + 18-250 was 2.8 lbs. But somehow that was a really noticeable difference, the K200d felt much heavier. I think I will have to take more comparison shots. The Pentax body is definitely more rugged than the Canon. The Canon body just looks like something that's going to break down the road. The Canon has some interesting pluses like the ISO button, something I sorely miss on the K200D. And it seems much better IQ. I wonder how much of this is correct : Canon T3i vs Pentax K200D I was surprised to learn that the K200D has a larger sensor and better color depth, . Image quality is rated at 65.0 for the T3i and 64.0 for the K200D , ie. almost the same. This is crazy to me. Seems like there are huge differences, and not just because of the Canon's 18 MP. As I stated above, It says that the T3i has lower noise at high ISO, but the numbers don't look very impressive . 793 ISO for the T3i, 561 ISO for the K200D . Only 0.5 f-stops ! That sure doesn't match my findings. The 1600 ISO shot from the Canon was at least as good as the 400 ISO shot from the Pentax. That said, the snapsort page gives a good summary of the reason to choose the T3i - movies, flip-out screen, higher resolution.

04-17-2012, 05:40 PM	#48
Philoslothical Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,889	The 2 stops are coming from the fact that the K200D tops out at ISO 1600, and the T3i at ISO 6400 - two stops difference. As far as comparing the scores on snapsort, I think it just measures when noise starts to show up. The small difference between them starts to make more sense with added context: Quote: Comparing Low Light ISO Scores Lets compare the Nikon D700 gets a score of 2,303 ISO and the the Canon T2i (a much cheaper camera) gets a score of 784 ISO. How do these two compare? Firstly, this means that according to the DxOMark benchmarks the D700 shoots great quality images up to 2,303 ISO, and the T2i shoots great quality images up to 748 ISO. The difference can be expressed in f-stops, using this equation: Log2(2303/784) = 1.6 f-stops. This tells you that the D700 can get 1.6 f-stops more light than the T2i with the same image quality. For example, imagine you were shooting a subject a 800 ISO and 1/15s on the T2i, you could shoot it at approx 2,400 ISO on the D700 at 1/40s and get the same image quality, but likely get a much sharper image due to the faster shutter.

04-17-2012, 06:15 PM	#49
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Originally posted by Philoslothical The 2 stops are coming from the fact that the K200D tops out at ISO 1600, and the T3i at ISO 6400 - two stops difference. Actually there is a "boost" mode up to ISO 12,800 on the t3i, so in that sense, it is 3 stops. I did my image quality comparisons at 1,600 ISO only since that's the max that the K200D will do. Quote: As far as comparing the scores on snapsort, I think it just measures when noise starts to show up. The small difference between them starts to make more sense with added context: Thanks for the context. According to that test, I would get as much noise at 793 ISO on the T3i as 561 ISO on the K200D . But I don't think that's really correct from what I see on the screen. The noise level seems similar between 1600 ISO on the T3i vs 400 ISO on the K200D. Perhaps it's just due to the fact that there are more megapixels on the T3i and some noise just gets "lost" when the picture is sized to 2560x1600 (about 4 MP) ? I haven't yet tried to pixel peep and compare at 1:1 on those images. Oh, and if I use "tungsten light" as the white balance on the K200D, it gives a more appropriate image. All the other WB presets I tried on the K200D give this washed out look, including the 3 different fluorescent WBs.

04-17-2012, 06:29 PM	#50
Philoslothical Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,889	Boost ISO is done in software. For comparisons, I wouldn't even consider it a thing. One would expect ISO 1600 on the K200D to be quite a bit worse, it always is at the high end of a given camera's range. Just because in the DxO tests noise starts to appear at the levels quoted, doesn't mean that noise scales linearly from those numbers on, I don't think. I certainly wouldn't expect it to between brands. Originally posted by madbrain Perhaps it's just due to the fact that there are more megapixels on the T3i and some noise just gets "lost" when the picture is sized to 2560x1600 (about 4 MP) ? This has got to be skewing results a lot. Resizing downwards with interpolation helps a lot to clear up noise. It might give a better result at a given size, but it won't show you what the sensor is recording. Compare 1:1 crops to get a better idea what's really going on.

04-18-2012, 01:39 AM	#51
Jodokast96 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Erial, NJ USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,134	Originally posted by madbrain I was specifically talking about eneloops, which are all made in Japan. And I'm talking about the garbage Li-Ion you seem to keep buying.

04-19-2012, 02:11 AM	#52
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Originally posted by Jodokast96 And I'm talking about the garbage Li-Ion you seem to keep buying. That certainly wasn't apparent given what you were quoting in response. Anyway, most Li-on batteries are made in China. I just checked, and the original battery for my phone was made there. The original Canon battery for my HG21 camcorder was made in Japan. I still have it, but it it completely failed last years, at 3 years. The original Canon battery for my T3i DSLR was made in China. It failed too, but that was my fault for trying to make it work in a defective battery grip. Maybe I'll be able to fix it with a bit of solder to enlarge the one + broken contact. The ebay seller that sold me the defective T3i MK-550D Meike grip just sent me a new one at no extra charge, without asking for the bad one back. They sent me a slightly different model, a MK-550DL with an Intervalometer on it, and is quite nice. I don't know if the Li-On battery tray is any better since I can't test it now.

05-04-2012, 02:49 AM	#53
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Originally posted by luftfluss Madbrain, you can get the hotshoe covers on Ebay. FWIW, I've gone long stretches without using hotshoe covers on my various Pentaxes with no ill effects. This would work with your Pentax to Canon issue: Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Fotodiox Lens Mount Adapter with Dandelion AF Focus Confirmation Chip, Pentax K/PK to Canon EOS Camera adapter, fits Canon EOS 1d,1ds,Mark II, III, IV, 5D, MarK II, 7D, 10D, 20D, 30D, 40D, 50D, 60D, Digital Rebel xt, xti but of course you have to use the lenses manually, and you are stuck using a wide open aperture. I've never heard of a converter that would let you adjust aperture if the lens lacks an aperture ring. I bought said adapter and received it. Unfortunately, it appears that the lens remains stopped all the way down (smallest aperture) by default, rather than wide open :-( I can barely see anything through the viewfinder. I cannot compose shots, let alone manually focus. I will contact Fotodiox to inquire about this, but I'm afraid the adapter is useless for my 2 lenses that lack aperture rings.