Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-15-2008, 04:52 PM   #16
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Virginia Beach VA USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,364
I had standard Katz Eye screens in both of my DS's. They are very good for MF. Split image with a microprism collar. The matte they use for the background has more "bite" to it, also. Images really snap into focus. I saw no adverse effects for AF. The down side is exposure. Matrix and CW metering is off by 1/3-1/2 stop. That's OK cause it is consistent. Spot metering is useless, as the split image changes opacity right in the area spot metering uses.

Will, I have 2 that I'm no longer using. 1 from a DS I sold, the other I removed from my current DS, cause I have all AF lenses now, it is a back up body, and I use spot metering more often.

PM me if you are interested.

01-15-2008, 05:07 PM   #17
Veteran Member
Matt Miller's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cambridge, Iowa
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 339
QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
I can remove it and revert to the original screen if I don't like it, right?

Will

Yes, in a matter of minutes.
01-16-2008, 07:07 AM   #18
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 433
QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Andrei: Thanks for that link. Very interesting reading.

David: I understand now, no bad effect on focusing.

Thanks to everybody else who has responded, especially those of you who have the Katz Eye on your K10Ds. My original idea was to buy the Katz Eye for the *ist DS first and test it out. But I'm thinking now about taking a deep breath and buying the screen for the K10D instead. I can remove it and revert to the original screen if I don't like it, right?

Will
Will,
Switching the K10d focus screen was a very quick job. The first time took less than 1/2 hour due to extreme caution. I suspect the 2nd time (if I ever choose to) will be less than 10 minutes. I used a jewelers screw driver, a pair of tweezers my wife uses for her stamp collection and a micro fibre glasses/lens cloth to protect the mirror.
Dave
01-16-2008, 07:26 AM   #19
Pentaxian
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 15,312
QuoteOriginally posted by roscot Quote
The down side is exposure. Matrix and CW metering is off by 1/3-1/2 stop. That's OK cause it is consistent. Spot metering is useless, as the split image changes opacity right in the area spot metering uses.
That is the killer for me. I rely on spot metering for wildlife, and although I would like accurate manual focusing, spot metering is, I think, more important.

01-16-2008, 08:01 AM   #20
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
That is the killer for me. I rely on spot metering for wildlife, and although I would like accurate manual focusing, spot metering is, I think, more important.
Yes, I'm with Lowell here. The thought of losing spot metering completely caused me NOT to place an order yesterday, when I thought I was ready.

Did we used to have spot metering on the old film SLRs that had split-prism focusing? I can't remember having different exposure modes at all back in the 1960s and 1970s, at least on the old cameras I was using.

Does center-weighted metering work? I would assume that it's off by a bit, but does it work nonetheless?

Another thing that has me a bit concerned is the impact on auto-focus. Everybody here says it makes no difference to auto-focus here, but I can't quite figure that out. I use center spot auto-focus quite a bit -- the majority of the time. If center spot metering is affected by the Katz Eye, why isn't center spot auto-focusing?

Will
01-16-2008, 08:18 AM   #21
Pentaxian
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 15,312
QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Yes, I'm with Lowell here. The thought of losing spot metering completely caused me NOT to place an order yesterday, when I thought I was ready.

Did we used to have spot metering on the old film SLRs that had split-prism focusing? I can't remember having different exposure modes at all back in the 1960s and 1970s, at least on the old cameras I was using.
Although I have never used it, the LX I believe had some form of center metering, not spot as we know it but I believe something like 3-5% of the center screen area
QuoteQuote:

Does center-weighted metering work? I would assume that it's off by a bit, but does it work nonetheless?
I think that got answered by the consistent -1/3 to -1/2 stop error
QuoteQuote:
Another thing that has me a bit concerned is the impact on auto-focus. Everybody here says it makes no difference to auto-focus here, but I can't quite figure that out. I use center spot auto-focus quite a bit -- the majority of the time. If center spot metering is affected by the Katz Eye, why isn't center spot auto-focusing?

Will
I was never sure of that either,

Reports say that blacking out of the prism is due to off center viewing, but I don't know enough about the focusing sensors to know if they are exactly centered or to understand how they would perceive the split image.

As I recall from my opld film body, the depth of field in the split image was very very good compared to the surrounding ground glass, therefore it will always show a high contrast sharp image if the focusing system is looking at the same thing.

I gusee the only way would be to actually see one and try it out.

edit note:

Based upon what I see, I think I am heading towards the possibility of waiting a little, to see what comes out next in cameras. Then, I might modify one of my two bodies, either K10D or *istD to be a manual lens only body. Unfortunately I see no good compromise, because the K10D can't do P-TTL with manual lenses, and I have some long manual lenses, but would not want to give up good metering and TTL performance with the central spot om my *istD just to have a split image.
01-16-2008, 08:27 AM   #22
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
Original Poster
Re my question about whether center-weighted metering works, Lowell writes:

QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I think that got answered by the consistent -1/3 to -1/2 stop error
Wasn't sure if that applied to matrix metering or to both matrix and center-weighted, that's why I was asking specifically about center-weighted. If the split prism affects the metering of that entire area of the photo, I'd expect it to have a worse impact on center-weighted than it does on matrix. Doesn't that make sense?


QuoteQuote:
I guess the only way would be to actually see one and try it out.
Heh, that's what I was afraid of.

I'm using manual focus more these days because, well, I do get better results with it sometimes. But I still use auto-focus most of the time and I can't see that changing. Most of my shooting is event stuff and I just don't have time to set every shot up with loving care including manual focusing. I know that the manual focusing adepts will scoff and remind me that we didn't always have auto-focus and yet Cartier-Bresson managed to take a good shot now and then. True, but it's quite clear that our new digital tools are made with auto-focus in mind, and without much thought for manual focus. The loss of the split focusing screen is one change -- one that can be remedied to some degree. But I also think that the focusing barrels on most of my digitally-optimized lenses turn less than they used to, which makes very fine focusing adjustments somewhat more difficult. And it's hard to do much about that. (I'm not prepared to stop buying new, digitally optimized lenses!)

Well, I'll have to think about it. May place an order and see what I think. If I do, I'll post back here with a followup message. Thanks to everybody for your help.

Will
01-16-2008, 09:43 AM   #23
and
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,471
To clarify two things here:
AF is not affected, the AF sensor not behind the focusing screen so even if you put a completely black, non transparent screen, AF would still work.

Metering is affected, because the metering is, unfortunately imo, behind the focusing screen so any change in light coming through the screen will affect metering.

Now if the lens is slow and one half of the split prism goes black then of coruse that black part will affect the meter.

I dont have a katzeye myself, I bought a cheaper screen, a Nikon screen that also fit the k10d. And I have had no metering problems in any metering mode, AS long as the lens is f2.8 or faster! but if it is, no problems. if its slower, then problems will occur in any metering mode, not just spot. Especially one of my zoom lenses that is f5.6 in the long end will underexpose over 3 stops. Of course dont pay too much attention to this because I believe the katz eye is different in some of these aspects. but just to make it clear, split prism does not affect af, it is great but it can affect metering, most noticably with slow lenses.

I should add that I have been thinking of changing to katz eye myself. but the exact effects on metering dont seem so well defined, and its expensive to try out. my screen was cheap so i thought why not.


Last edited by and; 01-16-2008 at 10:17 AM.
01-16-2008, 10:25 AM   #24
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 114
QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
I should add that I have been thinking of changing to katz eye myself. but the exact effects on metering dont seem so well defined, and its expensive to try out. my screen was cheap so i thought why not.
Do you mind sharing what screen you're using? Thanks, Matt
01-16-2008, 10:34 AM   #25
and
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,471
Its in my profile, its the Nikon K3.

Funny is saw this DPR thread when I googled it:
It's a K3 screen for Nikon FM3a, delivered in its original box: Canon EOS 40D/30D/20D/10D Forum: Digital Photography Review

claims the katz is made from K3's. I doubt that though....
01-16-2008, 10:45 AM   #26
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
I dont have a katzeye myself, I bought a cheaper screen, a Nikon screen that also fit the k10d. And I have had no metering problems in any metering mode, AS long as the lens is f2.8 or faster! but if it is, no problems. if its slower, then problems will occur in any metering mode, not just spot. Especially one of my zoom lenses that is f5.6 in the long end will underexpose over 3 stops. Of course dont pay too much attention to this because I believe the katz eye is different in some of these aspects. but just to make it clear, split prism does not affect af, it is great but it can affect metering, most noticably with slow lenses.

The aperture that you're talking about here is the lens's technical maximum, right -- not the aperture at which you're actually shooting the photo right now? In other words, you're okay shooting at f/16 provided the lens can go to f/2.8 or faster when you want it to?

It's a little more troubling to me to hear that shooting with fast lenses, there's no problem with metering, while shooting with slower lenses, there is. That means the effects on metering are NOT consistent. Most of the lenses I use now are f/2.8 or better:
  1. Sigma 18-50 f/2.8
  2. Pentax DA* 50-135 f/2.8
  3. Pentax 35 f/2
  4. Pentax 50 f/1.4
But there are three lenses that I still use fairly often that are slower:
  1. Tamron 75-300 f/4-5.6
  2. Sigma 10-20 f/4-5.6
  3. Pentax 16-45 f/4
To make matters a bit worse, I frequently use the Tamron 75-300 with a 1.4x converter, so the effective aperture at 300mm is f/8. I'm pretty sure the Katz Eye web site suggests that the "blackout" phenomenon occurs at f/5.6.

So I have two more questions.

First, am I correct in thinking that the camera will meter more or less normally if I'm using a fast lens, but that I'll have to remember to expect a bit of a hit if I'm using one of my slower lenses? Others here have said the effect is consistent, but I'm not sure whether that meant "consistent for a particular lens," or "consistent at a particular focal length," or simply "consistent regardless of lens and focal length."

Second, should I consider the Opti-Brite treatment for the Katz Eye? The Katz Eye web site is understandably non-committal about the benefits of this treatment. They sell it as an option and of course that means they have to suggest that buying a screen without this option will give you acceptable results. But I wonder if it's not worth the extra $55. Anybody have it?

Will
01-16-2008, 11:02 AM   #27
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
Original Poster
Actually I have another question.

Most here have said that the Katz Eye doesn't have a bad effect on auto-focus. But what is the effect on auto-focus? I mean, if I'm using auto-focus -- as I do more often than not -- do I still see the split prism halves come together nicely as I would if I were focusing manually? I assume that I do.

And if I have a Katz Eye and the split-prism does work in auto-focus, too, does that make the Pentax quick focus adjustment systems more valuable? In other words, I let the camera auto-focus, then grab the focus ring and tweak the focus manually, with the help of the Katz Eye? THAT would be nice. Right now, without the Katz Eye, once the camera has told me the auto-focus is satisfactory, I can't usually see things in the viewfinder well enough to make a big improvement with further tweaking.

Will
01-16-2008, 11:23 AM   #28
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 114
QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
Its in my profile, its the Nikon K3.

Funny is saw this DPR thread when I googled it:
It's a K3 screen for Nikon FM3a, delivered in its original box: Canon EOS 40D/30D/20D/10D Forum: Digital Photography Review

claims the katz is made from K3's. I doubt that though....

Thanks, that was a good read. Now to look for a screen...
01-16-2008, 11:33 AM   #29
Veteran Member
Matt Miller's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cambridge, Iowa
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 339
QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
And if I have a Katz Eye and the split-prism does work in auto-focus, too, does that make the Pentax quick focus adjustment systems more valuable? In other words, I let the camera auto-focus, then grab the focus ring and tweak the focus manually, with the help of the Katz Eye? THAT would be nice.
The split prism is always there. It does help with autofocusing too, just as you describe. I was suprised how many times the camera misfocused in autofocus. I never saw it with the stock screen, but it's obvious with the katz eye.
01-16-2008, 11:35 AM   #30
Pentaxian
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 15,312
Will

With the last couple of postings, I think you have stated all of the reasons why I decided NOT to spend the money.

I think before I spend what amounts to the cost of a couple of legacy lenses, I better make sure that it works well with the 14 lenses I already own.

I need to find someone who has one in my area and play a lot (not just a little)
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, dslr, eye, focus, katz, pentax, photography, screen, screens
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Focusing manual lens with OEM focusing screen, is a split screen really needed? skid2964 Pentax Camera and Field Accessories 16 09-17-2010 02:54 PM
For Sale - Sold: Pentax Brand Focusing Screens and Katz Eye Focusing Screen K10D/K20D (Worldwid superbass Sold Items 8 03-26-2010 01:42 PM
For Sale - Sold: Minolta X-700 Focusing Screen (for you to cut your own split screen) frank Sold Items 3 09-24-2009 10:08 PM
Seeking advice on focusing screen (split screen) for K200D Ari Freund Pentax DSLR Discussion 8 07-31-2009 03:00 AM
For Sale - Sold: K100d and 18-55mm kit lens + split focusing screen installed + glass screen pr vanchaz2002 Sold Items 1 07-24-2008 07:09 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:38 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top