What camera should Pentax build to advance the brand?

keyofnight · 05-09-2012, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

If you want a retro styled camera that looks like a thin old SLR, the E-M5 provides exactly that.

I tried the E-M5 the other day—I enjoyed the feel of it. I'm not a fan of electronic viewfinders at all, and I'm not the biggest fan of the m4/3 lenses at the moment. It did, however, have an excellent feel to it. (I'm no expert on the matter, though.)

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

No one makes a digital rangefinder but Leica. And they almost went bankrupt following their nostalgic strategy. I can see them making money off their lenses, but I don't see them selling a lot of cameras with what they are providing in them.

I was under the impression Leica was doing well with their latest entries. I remember the fiasco after the M8 IR sensitivity issues…I don't remember them going "almost bankrupt" over the digital M-series, but I'm no expert on that matter either.

I won't pursue the matter further…

madbrain · 05-09-2012, 10:40 PM

Here is what I think Pentax should make :

1) a follow-up to the K200D :

Ie. an updated affordable APS-C body, taking AA batteries (or hybrid Lion/AA like the K-r), weather-sealed, with a grip option, DC power connector (without stupid coupler), cable release connector. The last one of which I miss dearly on the K-r which replaced my K200D.

Add to that 1080p HD video, mic input for audio, and an articulated screen to go with it, and an updated sensor at least as good as the K-r in terms of ISO and MP. Maybe 16 to 20 MP.

2) an FF body

Same as above, plus have a 24 or 36 MP sensor to take full advantage of FF.
Add some AF for video, and 4K video, built-in GPS so flash can still be used.

twitch · 05-09-2012, 11:01 PM

Pen digital styling is very strongly influenced by the Pen film cameras. The "Pen" name is no accident.

civiletti · 05-09-2012, 11:06 PM

I think retro works better if a high-end product is emulated, as opposed to, say, the K1000.

TOUGEFC · 05-09-2012, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by twitch

Bossa, I saw the 100% crop you posted from the Sigma 50, that looked pretty sharp to me. But yeah, lenses like the FA limiteds are pretty good. Honestly I think I'd be a Nikon FF owner like you if it wasn't for my FA31 and FA77.

There's no reason you cant have both

eddie1960 · 05-10-2012, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

Even if Leica doesn't actually announce one, this sounds like an interesting idea too:

Mirrorless Rumors | Blog | The Leica B&W M mount camera has 18 megapixels! Announcement tomorrow!

A B&W sensor. I would definitely like to get one.

and only a grand more than an m9 . Like all leica RF bodies it will sell in minimal quantities and be built in minimal quantities

It is a cool idea though

Laurentiu Cristofor · 05-10-2012, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by twitch

Pen digital styling is very strongly influenced by the Pen film cameras. The "Pen" name is no accident.

I wouldn't say so. Have a look at the E-P1 next to the original Pen. They both have a body with a lens mounted on it - and they're both small - that's about all they have in common.

Originally posted by eddie1960

It is a cool idea though

I'm surprised no one used it for a smaller sensor camera. It could work well with a Q model too.

eddie1960 · 05-10-2012, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

I'm surprised no one used it for a smaller sensor camera. It could work well with a Q model too.

I'm surprised Ricoh hasn't done it in the past on a GRD variant. they already do a good job with b/w but a proper b/w sensor with 14-16 bit processor would be amazing. GRD is a quirky camera but a true photographers P&S IMO

kacansas03 · 06-01-2012, 03:35 PM

Instead of us demanding a FF camera how about the way some other brand have gone with a larger sensor that is around 1/3 crop instead of our 1/5 crop? The real drawback to the FF sensor is so many less sensors out of a semiconductor wafer. So I suggest that Pentax split the difference to keep prices down.

aleonx3 · 06-01-2012, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by jezza323

I disagree, if Pentax went the retro route, they would just be following Fuji & Olympus (and Leica to an extent I guess)

With all due respect for those who advocate that Pentax should absolutely have to have a cheap bottom price camera to compete with others, it never occurs to me that Subaru have to build cheap cars in order to survive among the auto giants like Toyota and Honda. Pentax needs to differentiates itself from others such that if someone wants a better build camera, that is the brand name they will likely to go to, not because it is cheap.

vonBaloney · 06-01-2012, 04:19 PM

Being cheap helps. Bang for my buck is the biggest thing that brought me to the K10D and DSLRs. Given the competition at the price point I was prepared to spend, it was no contest.

aurele · 06-01-2012, 04:20 PM

Subaru do lots of rally and sponsoring. Subaru is more like leica : good product for those who really know cars, and trully want to go that way.

Pentax is more like a really small constructor trying to compete on mainstream car against GM/Toyota.

Pentax need entry level to sell a lot of it and be more "auto advertised" by customer strap, and thu, get more brand recognition. All that goes with marketing.

vonBaloney · 06-01-2012, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by aurele

Subaru do lots of rally and sponsoring. Subaru is more like leica : good product for those who really know cars, and trully want to go that way.

Pentax is more like a really small constructor trying to compete on mainstream car against GM/Toyota.

Pentax need entry level to sell a lot of it and be more "auto advertised" by customer strap.

Not really like Leica. Every third car in my town is a Subaru Outback, although it seems like they are less dense than a few years ago. Leica is truly niche -- I've never seen one in the wild. Pentax has a small market share, but it has a share. Subaru probably has a bigger share of the car market, but maybe not. (The car market is not totally dominated by only two brands either.) Leica is an outlier -- you can ignore it statistically.

ihasa · 06-01-2012, 04:45 PM

Pentax need to make a truly excellent *compact* digital camera. Yes compact cameras are losing market share fast, but they're still most people's way in to photography. They don't have to reinvent the wheel either - all the technology is there in the Q just stick a high quality fixed zoom lens on it! Keep the rest of the controls as per the Q. And oh yes, make it at least WR.

**monochrome** · 06-01-2012, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by aleonx3

With all due respect for those who advocate that Pentax should absolutely have to have a cheap bottom price camera to compete with others, it never occurs to me that Subaru have to build cheap cars in order to survive among the auto giants like Toyota and Honda. Pentax needs to differentiates itself from others such that if someone wants a better build camera, that is the brand name they will likely to go to, not because it is cheap.

Subaru's aren't really that expensive. They last forever.

06-01-2012, 03:35 PM	#54
kacansas03 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Photos: Albums Posts: 650	larger sensor Instead of us demanding a FF camera how about the way some other brand have gone with a larger sensor that is around 1/3 crop instead of our 1/5 crop? The real drawback to the FF sensor is so many less sensors out of a semiconductor wafer. So I suggest that Pentax split the difference to keep prices down.

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05-09-2012, 10:28 PM	#46
keyofnight Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Seattle, WA Photos: Gallery Posts: 128	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor If you want a retro styled camera that looks like a thin old SLR, the E-M5 provides exactly that. I tried the E-M5 the other day—I enjoyed the feel of it. I'm not a fan of electronic viewfinders at all, and I'm not the biggest fan of the m4/3 lenses at the moment. It did, however, have an excellent feel to it. (I'm no expert on the matter, though.) Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor No one makes a digital rangefinder but Leica. And they almost went bankrupt following their nostalgic strategy. I can see them making money off their lenses, but I don't see them selling a lot of cameras with what they are providing in them. I was under the impression Leica was doing well with their latest entries. I remember the fiasco after the M8 IR sensitivity issues…I don't remember them going "almost bankrupt" over the digital M-series, but I'm no expert on that matter either. I won't pursue the matter further…

05-09-2012, 10:40 PM	#47
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341	Here is what I think Pentax should make : 1) a follow-up to the K200D : Ie. an updated affordable APS-C body, taking AA batteries (or hybrid Lion/AA like the K-r), weather-sealed, with a grip option, DC power connector (without stupid coupler), cable release connector. The last one of which I miss dearly on the K-r which replaced my K200D. Add to that 1080p HD video, mic input for audio, and an articulated screen to go with it, and an updated sensor at least as good as the K-r in terms of ISO and MP. Maybe 16 to 20 MP. 2) an FF body Same as above, plus have a 24 or 36 MP sensor to take full advantage of FF. Add some AF for video, and 4K video, built-in GPS so flash can still be used.

05-09-2012, 11:01 PM	#48
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Pen digital styling is very strongly influenced by the Pen film cameras. The "Pen" name is no accident.

05-09-2012, 11:06 PM	#49
civiletti Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Photos: Albums Posts: 1,435	I think retro works better if a high-end product is emulated, as opposed to, say, the K1000.

05-09-2012, 11:14 PM	#50
TOUGEFC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,561	Originally posted by twitch Bossa, I saw the 100% crop you posted from the Sigma 50, that looked pretty sharp to me. But yeah, lenses like the FA limiteds are pretty good. Honestly I think I'd be a Nikon FF owner like you if it wasn't for my FA31 and FA77. There's no reason you cant have both

05-10-2012, 05:06 AM	#51
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Even if Leica doesn't actually announce one, this sounds like an interesting idea too: Mirrorless Rumors \| Blog \| The Leica B&W M mount camera has 18 megapixels! Announcement tomorrow! A B&W sensor. I would definitely like to get one. and only a grand more than an m9 . Like all leica RF bodies it will sell in minimal quantities and be built in minimal quantities It is a cool idea though

05-10-2012, 10:28 AM	#52
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by twitch Pen digital styling is very strongly influenced by the Pen film cameras. The "Pen" name is no accident. I wouldn't say so. Have a look at the E-P1 next to the original Pen. They both have a body with a lens mounted on it - and they're both small - that's about all they have in common. Originally posted by eddie1960 It is a cool idea though I'm surprised no one used it for a smaller sensor camera. It could work well with a Q model too.

05-10-2012, 10:51 AM	#53
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor I'm surprised no one used it for a smaller sensor camera. It could work well with a Q model too. I'm surprised Ricoh hasn't done it in the past on a GRD variant. they already do a good job with b/w but a proper b/w sensor with 14-16 bit processor would be amazing. GRD is a quirky camera but a true photographers P&S IMO

06-01-2012, 03:56 PM	#55
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by jezza323 I disagree, if Pentax went the retro route, they would just be following Fuji & Olympus (and Leica to an extent I guess) With all due respect for those who advocate that Pentax should absolutely have to have a cheap bottom price camera to compete with others, it never occurs to me that Subaru have to build cheap cars in order to survive among the auto giants like Toyota and Honda. Pentax needs to differentiates itself from others such that if someone wants a better build camera, that is the brand name they will likely to go to, not because it is cheap.

06-01-2012, 04:19 PM	#56
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Being cheap helps. Bang for my buck is the biggest thing that brought me to the K10D and DSLRs. Given the competition at the price point I was prepared to spend, it was no contest.

06-01-2012, 04:20 PM	#57
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	Subaru do lots of rally and sponsoring. Subaru is more like leica : good product for those who really know cars, and trully want to go that way. Pentax is more like a really small constructor trying to compete on mainstream car against GM/Toyota. Pentax need entry level to sell a lot of it and be more "auto advertised" by customer strap, and thu, get more brand recognition. All that goes with marketing.

06-01-2012, 04:24 PM	#58
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by aurele Subaru do lots of rally and sponsoring. Subaru is more like leica : good product for those who really know cars, and trully want to go that way. Pentax is more like a really small constructor trying to compete on mainstream car against GM/Toyota. Pentax need entry level to sell a lot of it and be more "auto advertised" by customer strap. Not really like Leica. Every third car in my town is a Subaru Outback, although it seems like they are less dense than a few years ago. Leica is truly niche -- I've never seen one in the wild. Pentax has a small market share, but it has a share. Subaru probably has a bigger share of the car market, but maybe not. (The car market is not totally dominated by only two brands either.) Leica is an outlier -- you can ignore it statistically.

06-01-2012, 04:45 PM	#59
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066	Pentax need to make a truly excellent compact digital camera. Yes compact cameras are losing market share fast, but they're still most people's way in to photography. They don't have to reinvent the wheel either - all the technology is there in the Q just stick a high quality fixed zoom lens on it! Keep the rest of the controls as per the Q. And oh yes, make it at least WR.

06-01-2012, 05:01 PM	#60
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by aleonx3 With all due respect for those who advocate that Pentax should absolutely have to have a cheap bottom price camera to compete with others, it never occurs to me that Subaru have to build cheap cars in order to survive among the auto giants like Toyota and Honda. Pentax needs to differentiates itself from others such that if someone wants a better build camera, that is the brand name they will likely to go to, not because it is cheap. Subaru's aren't really that expensive. They last forever.