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01-17-2008, 02:07 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by k10dbook Quote
I cannot imagine B & H Photo treating their customers that way.
Permit me to ask you a question: Have you ever actually been to B&H?

I'm from NYC, and long before I ever owned a camera, even before I was aware that B&H was regarded as some sort of photographers' Mecca, I would occasionally subject myself to that place; I have always been able to count on B&H to provide an infuriating experience. Want rude treatment? Want to be herded with your fellow customers like cattle in a slaughterhouse? Want to be concurrently scrutinized by security and passed over by sales associates? Then go to B&H.

After my most recent visit I'm resolved that B&H won't be seeing another dime of my money. And there is nothing they can provide which can't be found (elsewhere) on the Interwebs (often for a lower price).

-XM

01-17-2008, 04:07 PM   #32
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I'll never understand how bricks'n'mortar stores don't understand that they have to offer something over online purchases. Going into a store and finding they don't stock anything and have to "order it in" is just ridiculous, since anyone can do that themselves nowdays, and get a cheaper price, why involve a middleman? I know all the economic reasons for not keeping lots of stock and so forth, but shrug, its not my job to keep your store afloat.

The local store where I actually did buy my K10D body the day it was released isn't too bad with Pentax gear, except one salesman is utterly OBSESSED with Sony/Konica Minolta. Obsessed to the point that he spent quite a bit of time lecturing me how the Sony A100 had the best high ISO noise of all the cameras, and how Sony came up with Pentax's image stabilization and so on. He's actually got a reputation locally at other camera shops, a friend of mine works at another camera shop and gets customers all the time saying "This one rude guy wouldn't let me buy anything but Sony".

Amusingly, my friends camera shop refuses to stock Pentax because the local Pentax rep guy is a complete *censored* and they won't deal with him anymore.

And watch it when sales staff push you to one brand or another, sometimes it might be their fanboyism, other times it might be special deals they get from that brand. A few months ago Nikon was giving anyone who sold five D40's another one for themselves, free. Fuji gave my friend a free P&S for selling a lot of Fuji gear.
01-17-2008, 06:17 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Karl Inge S Quote
Anyone hvae som sale-figures for PEntax now, especially for the K10D?

I know I`ve comvinced some poor people thinking EOS400D or D40 was better...
All I've seen for recent stats has been the end-of-year Japanese market share report that had Pentax running (distant) third behind Nikon and Canon. That said, I'm not sure sales figures and market share are the key metric. One would expect Canon and Nikon to have dramatically higher numbers when their D-SLRs are often the (only) ones stocked in the (in-store) Wal Marts and Best Buys of the world.

Canon and Nikon are strong brands, but so is Pentax. I doubt the average Jill moving up to an entry-level D-SLR is aware of any magic fairy dust surrounding Canon over Pentax to influence her choice. I think it's more of an availability and distribution thing.

It seems that the stores that do choose to stock K100s see them sell well. The K100D Super was just introduced this autumn and it's now nearly impossible to get in Canada. Demand far outstrips supply.
01-17-2008, 06:48 PM   #34
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I have to say I tend to agree with those who look at it from the perspective of Pentax being a relatively minor player in the market. Accordingly, I suspect many of the camera store salespeople don't know Pentax's products as well as those from "other" brands, and are acting defensively and trying to impress you with what they DO know about other brands.

I've found that if you go in asking for Pentax, most stores are happy to have you play around with theirs (which could be interpreted as 'grateful laziness' that they don't have to do any work!). Salespeople are after an easy sale, and if you go in there asking only to see the K10D and have a play with it after reading a 30-page DPReview article, all they really have to do is grunt appreciatively and make gentlee cooing noises rather than muddy the waters with alternatives, unless they think they can change your mind.

But, living in Australia, I find that where Pentax is stocked (and it is stocked, albeit less prominently than the big-sellers from Canon/Nikon/Sony), prices are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive than importing them from, say, B&H. (Even factoring in delivery costs, and even factoring in that they're not necessarily the cheapest). My K10D + 50mm f1.4 + Battery Grip + Spare Battery order was almost 25% cheaper than I could get in Australia at the time. AFTER international delivery costs!

That said, things are improving from an availability perspective. I do see Pentax-branded zooms and sigma K-mount lenses like the 10-20mm wideangle in stores. Again, though, they're so much more expensive than overseas....

01-17-2008, 07:20 PM   #35
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You know, at the end of the day, I am not trying to impress anyone but me and Pentax impresses me...I gave my D40 to my wife and my D200 to my daughter and feel like I gave away ''nothing''....When I go on picture Hunts, I go out to impress me and to make me happy...I could care less when Canon people or Nikon people look at me like some poor beaner who could only afford the inferior pentax...Yada yada yada...i will admit that I look as poor as dirt. I drive a 99 Ram pickup, wear old shoes and old clothes and often times my wife tells me I look homeless...But this is who I am...The truth is, I could buy any camera I want...I say this not to brag, but to say you can't judge a book by its cover...Anyway, sorry for the rant, I am off my soap box...
01-17-2008, 07:27 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
You know, at the end of the day, I am not trying to impress anyone but me and Pentax impresses me...I gave my D40 to my wife and my D200 to my daughter and feel like I gave away ''nothing''....When I go on picture Hunts, I go out to impress me and to make me happy...I could care less when Canon people or Nikon people look at me like some poor beaner who could only afford the inferior pentax...Yada yada yada...i will admit that I look as poor as dirt. I drive a 99 Ram pickup, wear old shoes and old clothes and often times my wife tells me I look homeless...But this is who I am...The truth is, I could buy any camera I want...I say this not to brag, but to say you can't judge a book by its cover...Anyway, sorry for the rant, I am off my soap box...
I feel similar. I like mine too. I shoot a lot of wildlife (birds mostly) and I get a lot of positive feedback. I also get comments from people telling me that if I want to ever 'progress' in this birding field I should go with one of the 'big' two.....I'd prefer to be the underdog!
01-17-2008, 11:58 PM   #37
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When I went into my camera store to handle cameras, I requested to hold the K10d before I pulled the trigger on it. However, as soon as the staff handed me the camera, they informed me "Nikon and Canon" have much better IQ and feature sets.

I put down the camera right away and thanked them for their time.
01-18-2008, 04:56 AM   #38
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i havnt got any horror stories, camerahouse in freo australia was actually quite helpful with info about whatever i had questions for, but ive just been busting to drop somewhere that adorama got me (for alot cheaper than local buy , after shipping) a 50 1.4 , 10-17 fish, battery and other bits within a week of order. less than 4 days shipping to w.a. now thats express. will be ordering from them again for sure.

01-18-2008, 07:07 AM   #39
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I put my name on the wait list for a K10D at the Henrys store i deal with. It only took a month and the call to the house was made. I should add, they did not even have a demo to play with.

I went up to the store, and the salesman brought it out. One salesman saw the box and came over, then another, another, etc. Soon, anyone with out a customer, was over looking at my camera.
They all had a go at it, and i think it was about 15 minutes before I got to look at it. I was ok with that, i got a kick out of them looking like 5 year olds at Xmas.

They all commented on haw solid etc the camera felt. I put my 16-45 on and we all had a look at the shots, only on the lcd, but they all liked what they saw using the zoom in.

I ask how the sales are when i go up, and usually get a "not bad" response. I know these guys will try and sell a Canon or Nikon, but I also know if you ask for a Pentax, they will show you one.

Dave
01-18-2008, 08:11 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Duck Dodgers Quote
No, they should have simply said, "sorry, but we don't carry Pentax." No reason to haughtily imply that since you're not asking about Canon or Neekon, you must not be very good at photography. Especially when they know that their cash cow is the XTi and D40, etc., and those are not being purchased by pros. Oh, well...just like on the interwebz, some people have their ego entwined inextricably with what they sell/own/possess.
Ohhhh come on Duck... Pentaxians have the same ego issues... Of course in our case we happen to be RIGHT!
01-18-2008, 08:32 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by cardinal43 Quote
I bought my K100D from a Ritz store in northern VA. I first went to a brand new (open about a month) Ritz store a couple of miles from my home, but they did not have either the K100 or K10 in stock. The sales guy told me he thought they had it at another Ritz and called and verified that it was in stock. At the 2nd store, my sales person was a young lady (looked about 18 or so). She asked what camera was I interested in and what experience I had (I told her I had not used a SLR since my Minolta SRT-101 days). I told her that I had looked at and handled both the canon and nikon, and that I had pretty much already decided on the K100D, but I had never held one. She handed me one off the shelf, put in the sd card, and told me to walk around with it a few minutes, take a few shots, see what I thought, and she would get back with me (she was working with 2 other customers) and answer any questions I might have. I did, and after she finished with the other 2 customers (1 canon purchase and 1 nikon), we talked a bit about the camera and she pointed out some things I wasn't aware of, and said "for the money, the K100D is a heck of a good camera and a good buy." I asked what she shot and she laughed and said she was a D80 snob. She never tried to talk me into another brand, and she said that based on what I had told her about my being a relative "newbie", she thought I would be very happy with the K100D. She did ask me if I thought I might want to step up to the K10 instead, but I told her I didn't think I was ready for that. There have been a few times that I wish I had gone for the K10, but I'm happy with the K100.

Sorry for this being so wordy, but all in all, my buying experience at both Ritz stores was good. The only downside to the whole experience is the fact that Pentax stiffed me for the $50 rebate -- but, I still luv the camera!

Until you got to the part about the D80 I thought you might have run into my daughter. She used to work at the Ritz Camera in Reston (and in Leesburg) and always pushed Pentax (because I taught her what a real camera was... LOL). Sorry to say she was the only Pentax fan on the staff, but it sounds like there is at least one fair-minded Ritz employee out there somewhere.

Btw, the best place for Pentax in northern VA is Ace Photo in Ashburn, VA (west of DC near Dulles Airport). Their website sucks (all those danged CaNikons on the front page) but the brick-and-mortar staff is great. The owner and several of the salesmen (including an ex nikon corporate employee) have switched to Pentax over the last year or so. I'm tryin to convince them to carry Pentax lenses for rental, but even for them that's a bit of a stretch.
01-18-2008, 08:41 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by PaulAndAPentax Quote
I feel similar. I like mine too. I shoot a lot of wildlife (birds mostly) and I get a lot of positive feedback. I also get comments from people telling me that if I want to ever 'progress' in this birding field I should go with one of the 'big' two.....I'd prefer to be the underdog!
I've had a couple of people tell me the same thing when I was at the track shooting motorcycle races. I just invited them back to my truck and showed them my 11x14 portfolio and they are uniformly floored... And at that point all of those were shot with the K110D. Can't wait to see the reaction on the K10D shots from the last race of last year's season.
01-18-2008, 09:22 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by afs760bf Quote
It's just a simple fact that if you were running a camera store to make money, and Canon has 45% of the market share, and Nikon has 35% of the market share, what equipment are you going to stock if you want to make money?

The local pro shop where I try to get my gear had the Pentax K10D in stock. They had a kit in stock, and a battery grip. They also had the 540 flash. I thought I was pretty fortunate. I got to compare the K10D with the D200 and others and decided on the K10D. But they're not going to stock many lenses for it because the lenses may well sit for a long time, and lenses for Canon and Nikon will sell. It's just simple economics. So I give them my business when I can, and I order lenses and accessories from them if they can come close to the on-line price. They usually try, because they actually do want the business - it's just not a good business decision to stock equipment for five percent of the people when you can stock equipment for 80% of the people.

No excuses for bad attitudes, but you can't blame a salesman for trying to sell you something he has rather than something he doesn't have. He works on commission, and he doesn't make the buying decisions.

Cheers
This pretty much says it all. If you saw the banners hanging on the outside of our local independant camera store you would think all they sold is Canon. Not a Pentax to be found inside ... nor Fuji either for that matter. Don't think I saw any Oly's either but couldn't be sure about that.

I once read somewhere that in Europe... Pentax's are seen everywhere!!
01-18-2008, 09:59 AM   #44
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I can understand the camera store pushing Canon and Nikon, since they're big and they will be around. I think many owners are still feeling the burn from Minolta's flameout. One owner said he liked Minolta's dSLRs (the first to have the in-body stabilization) but after he recommended them to some of his customers, and then K-M went under, he understandably lost them as customers. It's the same with Pentax, Oly or to some degree, Sony. Since it's hard to tell their committment/staying power, it's just safer to push the big two.

Also, there are lots of people that go to a store to be told what to buy. They see Canon at the NFL game, or Nikon ads, so that's what they think they want. They don't know details, only that they want a nice camera. Canon and Nikon make nice cameras, so it's safe to push them.

What I don't get is sales people that argue with the customer. When I go looking for Pentax gear, it's because I know what I want. After 1-2 questions, the good sales people should be able to see that I don't need help with my decision, but I need help spending my money! That's called service, and that's the only reason to go to a brick and mortar.

Face it, most people here (and in the other camera fora) know what they want. We are not who the sales people should be "selling" to. The general public who may not even know what an SLR is, do need selling, and it's just safer to sell them the big two. I'm okay with that.
01-18-2008, 01:47 PM   #45
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You, know I have noticed the K110D mentioned quite a bit here on this thread and I for one love my K110D...Often I think it is better that my K100D super and maybe even MY K10D...
i HAVE also heard from many owners of the 1d'S say the same or similar thing.
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