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05-21-2012, 06:54 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
(...) but in 50 years time maybe the DNG's can't be read, and the JPEGs can?
It doesn't work like that. As long as the format is a standard (that is, there are published instructions on how to read it) and there are no shady patent issues related to it, you will be able to decode it just fine years from now. That applies both for JPEG and DNG.

QuoteQuote:
Digital Negative (DNG) is an open lossless raw image format written by Adobe used for digital photography.
Exploitation of the file format is royalty free; Adobe has published a license allowing anyone to exploit DNG, and has also stated that there are no known intellectual property encumbrances or license requirements for DNG.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Negative

05-21-2012, 06:57 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
It doesn't work like that. As long as the format is a standard (that is, there are published instructions on how to read it) and there are no shady patent issues related to it, you will be able to decode it just fine years from now. That applies both for JPEG and DNG.
OK, but I wont be around in 50 years, and my kids may not be IT geeks who can/want to go to the trouble to decode 100,000s of unadjusted RAWs vs just reading 10,000 or so JPEGs. There is a big gap between published standards and people having images on their screen/paper.
05-21-2012, 07:02 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
OK, but I wont be around in 50 years, and my kids may not be IT geeks who can/want to go to the trouble to decode 100,000s of unadjusted RAWs vs just reading 10,000 or so JPEGs. There is a big gap between published standards and people having images on their screen/paper.
Of course, I didn't mean you have to learn how to decode it

What I meant is that If it's an open standard, there will be software written to work with it effortlessy.

For instance, MOD files were created in 1987. It's still used in the music industry, most professional software can read and write it and people still release music in this format (it even achieved cult status). Similar things will happen to TIFF, JPEG, DNG, etc.

Of course, JPEG are "developed", so it's less hassle.
05-21-2012, 07:19 PM   #19
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This is a good move I think. Maintaining your own format cost money, why not just use adobe's readily available format, and use the money somewhere where it will actually make a difference? Because right now there is very little difference from using DNG or PEF.

05-21-2012, 07:19 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
It doesn't work like that. As long as the format is a standard (that is, there are published instructions on how to read it) and there are no shady patent issues related to it, you will be able to decode it just fine years from now. That applies both for JPEG and DNG.
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and PNG as well, it's even an internet standard.
05-21-2012, 07:55 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
and PNG as well, it's even an internet standard.
Yes, it is, although it's not appropriate for photography.
05-21-2012, 07:58 PM   #22
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I guess the option doesn't make much of a difference, looking at it now. I once shot PEF as RAW before I got Adobe Photoshop with ACR in my PC. Now I don't use it at all - comparing the differences between the two the only obvious thing I see is that PEF files are a little smaller than DNG's (and not much smaller actually)
05-21-2012, 08:09 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
I guess the option doesn't make much of a difference, looking at it now. I once shot PEF as RAW before I got Adobe Photoshop with ACR in my PC. Now I don't use it at all - comparing the differences between the two the only obvious thing I see is that PEF files are a little smaller than DNG's (and not much smaller actually)
PEFs used to be smaller because older Pentax cameras didn't compressed DNG. The latest cameras (K-7 onwards, I believe) offer both compressed PEF and DNG, so it stopped making sense to support 2 file formats.

05-21-2012, 08:16 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
Yes, it is, although it's not appropriate for photography.
I know but it's an image format but PNG and DNG are almost the same in size so no reason at all to use PNG.
05-21-2012, 08:21 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
PEFs used to be smaller because older Pentax cameras didn't compressed DNG. The latest cameras (K-7 onwards, I believe) offer both compressed PEF and DNG, so it stopped making sense to support 2 file formats.
Thanks for that, if it's absolutely true, then it all makes sense now. Good move for Pentax with the switch to DNG. Bad if they want to release their own processing software haha
05-21-2012, 08:28 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
Thanks for that, if it's absolutely true, then it all makes sense now. Good move for Pentax with the switch to DNG. Bad if they want to release their own processing software haha
Good way to get support from one of the biggest processing software makers
I really wish they will enable tethering for Pentax in lightroom...
05-21-2012, 08:31 PM   #27
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On the other side, I hate to be hitched up to Adobe. They like to orphan things with every version of photoshop that comes out. Try using a Pentax K-5 PEF in CS3. The biggest advantage of PEF in the past was the smaller file size.
05-21-2012, 08:31 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I use DNG as well and think it is the better choice over PEF.
+1. I shot DNG from day 1 as I thought PEF might limit the software I could use.

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Trouble with that is, will anyone care? My wife is the family historian and she has boxes of family prints going back generations we have inherited from various family members. We scan them, try to identify who is in them and then try to get the originals to the family member most closely related. The hard part is getting anyone to even care, hopefully your family is better.
Someone eventually will. I was given a trunk full of items about a year ago that had been kicking around from family member to family member without anyone really wanting it. The items are from about 1820 until 1930 and I don't think anyone had looked through it since the 1950s. Amazing stuff. If you store your photos and papers away, someone, someday, will be happy to see them. I would print them off though.....USB / jpg / etc won't be around forever.
05-21-2012, 08:47 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Trouble with that is, will anyone care? My wife is the family historian and she has boxes of family prints going back generations we have inherited from various family members. We scan them, try to identify who is in them and then try to get the originals to the family member most closely related. The hard part is getting anyone to even care, hopefully your family is better.
Each year we have a picture exchange at the family reunion and try to get people to identify photographs. All I can say this is NOT a busy table. (125+ attendance)

I have learned that several photo-recovery software will not recover PEF. So I assume that in 30-50 years it will be difficult to find software to work with PEF. Who knows what computer will be like in that time. I use b&w film for people and digital for bugs and flowers.
05-21-2012, 09:04 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kaufeetime Quote
Each year we have a picture exchange at the family reunion and try to get people to identify photographs. All I can say this is NOT a busy table. (125+ attendance)

I have learned that several photo-recovery software will not recover PEF. So I assume that in 30-50 years it will be difficult to find software to work with PEF. Who knows what computer will be like in that time. I use b&w film for people and digital for bugs and flowers.
I had a CompactFlash card get shorted by a crappy reader last year and was able to recover the pef files. It was something of a PITA, but I was able to do it.
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