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01-20-2008, 02:00 PM   #1
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Pentax, Thier own worst enemy

Folks.
As I am sitting here getting ready to go shoot my sons Baptismal, I am arming myself with my K10D and DA*50-135, i got to thinking that perhaps I should take my K100D super and Tamron 28-75f/2.8 as it will be a little dark or maybe I will take both....Point is this...Which ever I decide to use, I am sure my photos will be perfect as I have really got to the point of understanding my equipment thanks in large part to many of the folks here...

So here is the thing...When Pentax comes out with the K200D and K20D I do not see how they will be able to improve the photo quality anymore than it is...Sure the lower and higher ISO performance along with a little faster frames per sec, more mega pixels, I do not see as a real + either...

Anyway, I sure hope its more than an upgrade, because atleast for me, I do not see how they can make it much better than it is.

01-20-2008, 02:24 PM   #2
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First, congratulations on your son's Baptismal.

Marketing a DSLR body is different than a film body in one very important way. In a film body, no matter what features, and advancements you add, you do not effect the image quality one bit. The only thing that effects the image is the lens mounted on the body, and the film you are shooting. Everything else is a convenience. A better meter, AF, a motor drive all make life easier, but in the end do nothing to improve the image. That is why you can buy a film body and use it for 20 or 30 years, with proper care and maintenance,

A DSLR is different. A DSLR has the "film" built in. Each generation of DSLR brings better sensors, and better image processors with it. The difference in IQ difference is quite visible.

This does not mean your current cameras will no longer take great pictures. What it does mean is that, from a marketing standpoint, it gives a great platform to sell bodies at a faster rate, as those that need the best IQ for their work, or those that just want the latest and greatest, will trade up on a 1-3 year schedule as opposed to a 10-30 year schedule.

So I'm a bit confused as to the title of your post. Pentax is in a great position to sell a lot of cameras in the next year (assuming they can build them fast enough)
01-20-2008, 02:25 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
I do not see how they can make it much better than it is.
Well, some things come to mind immediately

- add a stop-down coupler
- make the metering work correctly with K/M lenses
- make the bracketing work correctly in M mode (change A or T, not both)
01-20-2008, 02:31 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
Folks.
As I am sitting here getting ready to go shoot my sons Baptismal, I am arming myself with my K10D and DA*50-135, i got to thinking that perhaps I should take my K100D super and Tamron 28-75f/2.8 as it will be a little dark or maybe I will take both....Point is this...Which ever I decide to use, I am sure my photos will be perfect as I have really got to the point of understanding my equipment thanks in large part to many of the folks here...

So here is the thing...When Pentax comes out with the K200D and K20D I do not see how they will be able to improve the photo quality anymore than it is...Sure the lower and higher ISO performance along with a little faster frames per sec, more mega pixels, I do not see as a real + either...

Anyway, I sure hope its more than an upgrade, because atleast for me, I do not see how they can make it much better than it is.
Come on...there is always room for improvement in quality as well as new useful features. Pentax or any other company can't stay in business by settling for "good enough". If that was everyones attitude we would still be taking photos on glass plates ;-)

01-20-2008, 02:34 PM   #5
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Huh?

"I am sure my photos will be perfect"

"When Pentax comes out with the K200D and K20D I do not see how they will be able to improve the photo quality anymore than it is"


You're kidding, right?
01-20-2008, 03:26 PM   #6
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At this point, aside from better resolution (perhaps 50% increase) and less noise at each ISO, and wider ISO range, and perhaps, but I am not sure better frame rate I I don't have a problem now at 3 with the K10, I don't think there is much else wrong with the K10D. I love the control interface (have liked dual wheels since *istD), and would be seriously p%@@#d if they changed it.

BUT the reported CNOS sensor will have better battery life which is important.

WHat I would really like themto do is incorporate (and make available backwards into older modles) the ability to enter maximum and minimum apature of the lens, and let the camera control the K mount lenses like they were KA mount.

I would also like them to allow for inout of correction curves for exposure and to hold a menu of lenses (perhaps 5 or 10 because that is a typical number many peiople have)

The only other thing that they could improve on is to get a faster shutter. My PZ-1 was 1/8000 and a 1/250 sync. Why can;t we have that again.
01-20-2008, 03:38 PM   #7
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OK, I see my ignorance is showing...This is ok, I accept that, but let me explain a little bit further...First my use of the word ''perfect'' was a bad choice...strike that from the record.

I guess in my limited experience at least for me, I do not see how Pentax can come up with a better body for me, when I have not even mastered the ones I have. Anyway, I need to go, but I suspect I am in the majority as far as having limited knowledge of photography.
01-20-2008, 03:44 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
OK, I see my ignorance is showing...This is ok, I accept that, but let me explain a little bit further...First my use of the word ''perfect'' was a bad choice...strike that from the record.

I guess in my limited experience at least for me, I do not see how Pentax can come up with a better body for me, when I have not even mastered the ones I have. Anyway, I need to go, but I suspect I am in the majority as far as having limited knowledge of photography.
In many ways you are correct for a large portion of the photographic world. The K10D is indeed good enough for many. I think if you look at how I progressed through film, I bought my first camera in 1981, my second in 1982, but it was almost 10 years before things had progressed enough for me to get a PZ-1.

For many amatures my *istD would be good enough. The K10D is a significant step better, and even though there is a new camera jsut around the corner, I might actually pass on this one. Who knows?

At present, the largest I print is 11 x 17, and the K10D is just fine at that

01-20-2008, 05:23 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
OK, I see my ignorance is showing...This is ok, I accept that, but let me explain a little bit further...First my use of the word ''perfect'' was a bad choice...strike that from the record.

I guess in my limited experience at least for me, I do not see how Pentax can come up with a better body for me, when I have not even mastered the ones I have. Anyway, I need to go, but I suspect I am in the majority as far as having limited knowledge of photography.
I think you're asking, "where is the point of diminishing returns?" That's a personal question only you can answer.

Jer
01-20-2008, 06:43 PM   #10
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Any company out there can always improve upon their product.
To say the least they can make to so we can print off bigger images, or less noise in lower light situations.
Better color comprehension would be nice as well.

The same goes with us.
In my personal opinion we always have room for improvement in our art form.
01-20-2008, 08:21 PM   #11
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I know more then a few people who build successful business with istD camera. This was and is one hell of a camera, definitely not an average amature system.
Anyways, owning 2 Pentax D bodies I think the most area of improvement should be in low lite focusing department, each time I am handling my friends D80 in low lite conditions i feel A BIT JEALOUS.
I can probably live with everything else in my K10D for the next 2-3 years.


QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
In many ways you are correct for a large portion of the photographic world. The K10D is indeed good enough for many. I think if you look at how I progressed through film, I bought my first camera in 1981, my second in 1982, but it was almost 10 years before things had progressed enough for me to get a PZ-1.

For many amatures my *istD would be good enough. The K10D is a significant step better, and even though there is a new camera jsut around the corner, I might actually pass on this one. Who knows?

At present, the largest I print is 11 x 17, and the K10D is just fine at that
01-20-2008, 09:55 PM   #12
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Love my K10D. Can see plenty of ways to improve it.
1. Better jpeg quality.
2. Higher resolution.
3. Lower noise.
4. Better AF in low light.
5. Better SR. A panning mode would be nice.
6. Better dynamic range.
7. More reliable builtin flash. Still see them pop and die too often.
8. Larger buffer. Needs to do more than 10-12 in raw.
9. P-ttl that works closer than .7m and less time between preflash and flash. Stop the blinkers!
10. Recessed shutter button on next grip. Keep hitting it accidently.
11. Less delay time between pressing the shutter button and it actually firing. Delay time is in 140+ milisecond. Needs to be less than 100. K10D is in the bubble of working with Lightning trigger.
12. Ability for direct B&W capture along with the save feature we have now.
13. Quieter shutter/mirror with less vibration. Shooting original *ist D is shocking.

Well theres a start. Most would improve the quality.
thanks
barondla
01-21-2008, 04:38 AM   #13
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For starters they could de-cripple the mount. Adding a solenoid for stopping down M42 lenses to allow us to shoot from an open aperture would be nice, but I'm not silly enough to actually expect it.

I think the sensor area should be a removeable modular bit so that folks could upgrade just the sensor, if that is at all technically feasible. Sort of along the lines of how many medium format cameras have removeable backs.
01-21-2008, 06:48 AM   #14
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I've been a pro photographer for 10+ years. I've shot Nikon, Canon, and now Pentax. Here is what I would like to see in the next generation:

1. 3200 ISO (1600 is too limiting even though all my lenses are 2.8 or faster)
2. Better high ISO noise performance (Canon 3200 looks like Pentax 800)
3. Faster auto focus
4. A grip with both batteries (don't care about storing an SD card or remote at all and taking grip off to change batteries is way too time consuming)
5. Ability to sync camera time with a computer so multiple bodies have the EXACT same time. The lack of this ability is glaring to a PRO but probably no big deal for a consumer.
6. NO more mega pixels please. RAW file sizes at 16mb is plenty. I can easily make a 30x40 print from an 8mp file. 10 is overkill already.

A camera system (body, lenses, strobe, etc...) usually lasts me about 1.5 years before its worn out. I travel to very rough spots and shoot 100,000 to 150,000 frames per body per year. Overall I'm pleased with the overall Pentax package, especially for the price but it's wouldn't be much of a problem to switch back to Canon if Pentax doesn't keep up
01-21-2008, 09:08 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
OK, I see my ignorance is showing...This is ok, I accept that, but let me explain a little bit further...First my use of the word ''perfect'' was a bad choice...strike that from the record.

I guess in my limited experience at least for me, I do not see how Pentax can come up with a better body for me, when I have not even mastered the ones I have. Anyway, I need to go, but I suspect I am in the majority as far as having limited knowledge of photography.

you wont get a better body, i doubt that, altho they could improve on the ergonomics of it (personaly i would give pentax a nudge and have them hold a canon 30/40 D, personaly i find those cameras the most comfortable on the market)

but what you WILL get is a better SENSOR, and most likely a better shutter mechanism, refiend shake reduction and probably more refined auto-focus mechanism as well.

the thing is, when there is lots of light and a tripod, none of these things matter all that much, and you can go ahead and keep shooting with that *ist and be happy

but when the sun goes down and you lack a tripod, all of those things, and the level of their refinement start to really really matter.

like currently, i know a photo is trashed if i'm handheld and the shutter speed is below 1/6 if i'm sitting and below 1/10 if i'm standing, no iffs or buts, my hands simply shake too much.



if the new technology will either allow me to shoot at 1/6~1/10 (or slower) and keep stable then i will pay for that

if my shots taken at 1600 will look like my 800 shots now, i will aslo pay for that

also, pentax owners dont complain much about the shutter slap, but when you have a friend with a Canon, you get jealous of how smoothly the Canon takes pictures.


=====

you are right to say that an increase in ULTIMATE image quality will be almost non existant, ie, perferct lighting conditions.

but the new camera will be a much better perfromer overall, in some of the more harsh conditions, and thats a plus, atleast for me.
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