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01-20-2008, 07:57 PM   #1
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Problem with brand new K10d..wondering if anyone else has seen this..

New to the forum and just switched today from a Canon setup to a Pentax K10d due to the feature being so much nicer. Love the body..until I shot @ ISO 1600..

Take a look...

Warning..Relatively large image ahead!!

http://www.josefstuartphotography.com/images/pentax/IMGP0062.jpg

Bumped the firmware to the 1.30 version and it makes no difference (didn't think it would, but had to try). Anyone else ever see this before? Looks like a sensor issue, not a processing issue (this was a raw shot converted to a jpg..)

It'll be going back to the store tomorrow and I can find no reference to this kind of a screen door pattern any where on the web..

Thanks for looking!

01-20-2008, 08:05 PM   #2
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It's called vertical pattern noise or VPN. If you search on the forums or on Google, you'll find plenty of discussions regarding this issue with the K10D. I don't know if there's a solution to it though... I have a K100D so I never really followed the discussions.
01-20-2008, 08:37 PM   #3
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wow..thanks for the info. I had not read anything about it when looking over reviews for the K10d..
01-20-2008, 08:51 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by joekr Quote
New to the forum and just switched today from a Canon setup to a Pentax K10d due to the feature being so much nicer. Love the body..until I shot @ ISO 1600..

Take a look...

Warning..Relatively large image ahead!!



Bumped the firmware to the 1.30 version and it makes no difference (didn't think it would, but had to try). Anyone else ever see this before? Looks like a sensor issue, not a processing issue (this was a raw shot converted to a jpg..)

It'll be going back to the store tomorrow and I can find no reference to this kind of a screen door pattern any where on the web..

Thanks for looking!
Do you have the grip attached? Seems that could cause the horiz pattern noise.
Usually when you see pattern noise it is vertical since the sensor reads from top to bottom of the short side.
The horizonal pattern noise is different. Send the camera for repairs (or exchange preferably)
Re: Time For Pentax To Step Up To the Plate: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

01-20-2008, 09:00 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by joekr Quote
wow..thanks for the info. I had not read anything about it when looking over reviews for the K10d..
It's not something that will happen every time and most reviews don't push cameras to ISO1600 with underexposure. You have an extreme case of it in this image you've posted and I've never seen it like this on my body before, but you'll probably get a good handful of people that will chime in here saying that they've experienced this. If you want swap the body at the store you purchased it from, or take multiple shots to see if this occurs often or if this is an anomaly.
01-20-2008, 09:21 PM   #6
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Did you push up the exposure on the image during PP? I definitely don't get such horrendous noise when I shoot at ISO1600 (which I do rather often and get useable results), and the vertical banding is positively terrible. It looks like you perhaps took the shot 3 or 4 stops underexposed then tried to fix it in Photoshop - if that is the case, don't do that and it should fix itself. If that is not the case, I'd be calling up Pentax. Something is terribly wrong with your sensor.
01-20-2008, 10:27 PM   #7
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Thanks all for the responses. That image is with absolutely no post processing.

The RAW shot went into Aperture and then exported as a full size jpg.

The body is going back tomorrow for an exchange. I am not ready to write off the K10d yet...
01-20-2008, 10:41 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by joekr Quote
Thanks all for the responses. That image is with absolutely no post processing.

The RAW shot went into Aperture and then exported as a full size jpg.

The body is going back tomorrow for an exchange. I am not ready to write off the K10d yet...
The K10D does like to be on the verge of overexposure. Here is an example of ISO 1600 with available mixed light (everything from sodium to police flashes and fire engines). The effect on this image is more like film grain. Having read all sorts of comments about the banding, but also having read about ETTR, I have pushed my exposures to the over side, almost, and get this result consistently. The full photo is there also on Flickr. I don't have anything artistic up there - just test shots. I am new to both digital and K10D, but definitely not new to Pentax.

Crop from bottom left corner of Fire on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

01-21-2008, 10:25 AM   #9
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My K10D will exhibit that @1600 when underexposed. Yet you would never know it from these shots, all unprocessed jpegs (click for full-size) Re: ISO 1600 shoot-out - dslreports.com. Exposing as far to the right as possible not only helps with the banding, but for less/nicer noise in general.
01-21-2008, 10:43 AM   #10
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That is absolutely NOT what most of us are talking about with VPN. The annoying VPN on the K10D is more random across the image - that is far too regular of a pattern to be anything but a defect, or perhaps a conflict with the grip like Jeff said.

If I were you I would take it back.
01-21-2008, 10:45 AM   #11
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Jodokast96 are you shooting in jpg or raw? My brother has the GX-10 and he tested some low light shots in jpg last night @ 1600 and he did not have this issue.. I know the Samsung is different firmware, but I am curious.

Given how severe the banding is, I am going to exchange the body this evening for a new one and see what happens. Mine had the 1.0 firmware on it, so who knows how long it was sitting on the sales floor. Maybe Pentax made hardware changes in later builds..it's worth a try in my mind...

I do work semi pro and regularly shoot in low light. I can't live with these results if they are constant. I will do more testing with the new body in the next day or two including shooting in jpg @ 1600 which I really would prefer not to be shooting in..

Thanks again everyone for the information and I'll report back..
01-21-2008, 10:46 AM   #12
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Thanks carpent for the reply. I need the grip unfotunately..hopefully a new body will make this right..
01-21-2008, 11:03 AM   #13
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First and foremost, the sample image is horribly underexposed. You should not expect any camera to take a useful image in that condition. You should set the ISO to 1600 and take a properly exposed image and you will see no banding. In addition, and in particular, the K10D performs best at ISO1600 when the you 'expose to the right'.. Or, just before the highlights are blown.

Also, just an FYI. If you follow that link that Jodokast96 sent you, you will see honest ISO1600 shots with the K10D - the same K10D that exhibits banding as you've shown. So, I know for a fact that if you expose properly with ISO1600, you get amazing images.

If you click here ISO 1600 shoot-out - dslreports.com that is the beginning of the thread - the images posted by that 'Rogue' guy show the EXIF data at the bottom of the images and of course, you can click for full size, or, download the RAW files as they are attached as ZIP files..

Last edited by Tom M; 01-21-2008 at 11:16 AM.
01-21-2008, 02:02 PM   #14
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I shoot both. Those were the out of camera jpegs, but the RAW conversions don't show it either. They were shot with the 1.1 firmware I believe. If not, it was 1.0. Like I said, I do get the lines when I seriously under-expose. Someone also pointed out the regularity of them, so I downloaded the image and played around with it. Looking at it at a reduced size, you can see a number of different things. First of all, they are horizontal lines since you were shooting in portrait orientation. The vertical banding is there, and is as I see it on my shots with equivilent exposure. Second, they are not sensor noise at all. I've seen where other people had similar problems and it turned out to be their cards, so try a different one. Otherwise, take it back, this isn't normal. I don't really know enough to be sure, but I'd suspect the AA filter as the culprit.
01-21-2008, 02:42 PM   #15
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Yep, many have seen it, and I'll echo much of the same already said. That's actually not too bad, compared to some of mine at times. I have a lot to learn to ensure properly exposed photographs.

joekr, wondering by how much you increased the brightness / exposure by over the original image? I do know that I've never seen that unless I push the exposure of the underexposed image in post. Would you be willing to use a capture program or some other method and post the original histogram of the image before modified by an image processing program? The general concensus of many is if shooting ISO 1600, to bias the histogram to the right of center w/o over exposure, when & if possible. No, it's not always possible; otherwise then, a dark image is a dark image. But if that is done, ISO1600 images are excellent.
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