Nikon vs pentax

garyk · 07-05-2012, 07:12 PM

The sorry POS K-5 lost me a once in a life time shoot of a bird in the jungle here in Thailand. Low light, and AF just plain did not work properly. My buddy had a Canon which I have gone to now. And almost every shot was spot on. It made me sick.

FrancisK7 · 07-05-2012, 07:16 PM

The K5 is not a POS by any mean. I've earned a good amount of money doing pro work with my Pentax gear. Notably a menu (which I photographed and designed) for an expensive French Bistro in Montreal.

But if you earn a living (and are not only doing photog as a hobby) on a type of photography that is DEPENDENT on AF (sport, high fashion, entertainment business, etc.) the K5 certainly isn't the best tool for the job since its AF blows royally in comparison to Canon and Nikon AF systems. That is just a fact.

For all other studio work, even macro, the K5 did the job. My business requirements simply require a more dependable and robust AF system in some cases, and the K5 is no longer good enough for my needs.

I would certainly still recommend the K5. Saying it's a POS is a little extreme.

VaughnA · 07-06-2012, 08:44 AM

I've been with Nikon for about a year now. I occasionally miss my limiteds but overall I'm very happy with the results of the switch. As Francis said above if AF is important there is no comparison. I've done some recent auto racing and cycling shooting and I'd say that maybe 1 out of 25 or 30 were out of focus compared to about 30% when in the same situation with my K-x. Part of that could be that there were no focus indicators on the Kx but the D300 AF works much better than the Pentaxes that I've used (K20,10 and Kx). I'm sure the newer bodies are better but I doubt they compare to the nikon af system. But if I was sticking to landscape and other photography where fast AF wasn't important I'd probably go with pentax. I still miss my DA15..

**luftfluss** · 07-06-2012, 10:09 AM

I have a K-x and mostly shoot critters, why don't I get to experience the Pentax AF problem? I feel left out.

VoiceOfReason · 07-06-2012, 10:24 AM

Yeah, I feel left out with my K5 too.

nfiduccia · 07-08-2012, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by FrancisK7

And let us not forget the shitty AF on all Pentax cameras. During my dance show assignment the K5 struggled so much with the AF in low light it was a nightmare.

Pentax has no gear that can match a 5DMkIII+85L or D800+24G/85G in IQ. It comes close, but then you factor in the FF advantage, AF and sync speed and there's no comparison. I'm 6'1" and work out five days a week, I can handle the extra bulk.

Hi Francis,

I am curious of light levels that you were shooting at for dance pictures? Also, were you shooting AF-S or AF-C? I have heard that in AFS, the K5 compares with the comparable Nikon (i.e. D7000). It's the AFC mode where the K5 falls behind (compared to the D7000). Also, the K5 suffers from accuracy problems under very low tungsten light.

Yes, I am not surprised that you like the 5DIII or D800 compared to the K5. Also, the full framer's are brand new technology and the K5 is two years old.

Nick

sb in ak · 07-08-2012, 06:17 PM

I have a 5DII and Pentax K-5...the 5DII does hold an IQ advantage (mostly sharpness) unless there are shadows to be lifted. I think it's mostly a function of the higher MPs. Keep in mind that I haven't been able to test several lenses with the K-5.

If there are shadows to lift, the K-5 takes it to the cleaners.

The K-5 can also go places I wouldn't want to haul a FF camera. I don't do a lot of action stuff, so I have been contemplating selling the 5D as the K-5 is stellar in most situations. The 5DII isn't great for sports anyway.

I would guess the Pentax engineers are hard at work improving AF as that is seen as Pentax's achilles heel at this point. I am hearing good things about the K-30 and there might be a killer camera to come out of Photokina.

Last edited by sb in ak; 07-08-2012 at 06:24 PM.

LeDave · 07-08-2012, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by garyk

The sorry POS K-5 lost me a once in a life time shoot of a bird in the jungle here in Thailand. Low light, and AF just plain did not work properly. My buddy had a Canon which I have gone to now. And almost every shot was spot on. It made me sick.

Going into Pentax you should already known that Pentax AF technology are possibly the worst when it comes to AF capabilities. Though knowing the K-30 did improve on that and is hopefully at least one generation down or less from Canikon in AF as my K-5 is probably 2 generations down. The K-5 is also not a POS either, there are a lot of upsides that make it more worth getting if you aren't planning to shoot anything rapidly in low-light, and not to mention that it has 9 cross-type AF points out of it's 11 which is useful when the AF is most working, in decent lighting or more.

twitch · 07-08-2012, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by FrancisK7

Pentax has no gear that can match a 5DMkIII+85L or D800+24G/85G in IQ. It comes close, but then you factor in the FF advantage, AF and sync speed and there's no comparison. I'm 6'1" and work out five days a week, I can handle the extra bulk.

APS-C DSLR's are excellent "jack of all trades masters of none" cameras. For IQ (& AF) the new FF cameras are much better... but the size! If you can handle the size & cost then go for it.

greatnw · 07-09-2012, 11:20 AM

I just picked up a used KX with just over 120 shutter releases. These Pentax DSLR's look like great all around values to me. The thing that sets them apart is the shake reduction. While not quite as effective as an IS lens, it works on any lens mounted to the camera!
My friends have canon's and nikon's. They are great and own the market, but I think Pentax is a real winner here.

FrancisK7 · 07-09-2012, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by nfiduccia

Hi Francis,

I am curious of light levels that you were shooting at for dance pictures? Also, were you shooting AF-S or AF-C? I have heard that in AFS, the K5 compares with the comparable Nikon (i.e. D7000). It's the AFC mode where the K5 falls behind (compared to the D7000). Also, the K5 suffers from accuracy problems under very low tungsten light.

Yes, I am not surprised that you like the 5DIII or D800 compared to the K5. Also, the full framer's are brand new technology and the K5 is two years old.

Nick

The stage was rented by the dance group and belongs to a high school. The lighting was done on the fly by an amateur in the control room, he didn't really know what he was doing but he's been doing it for them for years. He didn't want me to use flash on "hIs" stage, he said it'd ruin the atmosphere. The client trusted my judgment over his, so I met him in the middle and asked to place one strobe so I could get a few decent shots. Even then, he did a poor job and couldn't light the dancers for most of the show. He succeeded less than five times, and I caught one such time:

1.

The lighting was therefore terribly low. I had my K10D with a DA12-24 and a K5 with a DA*50-135. When I realized I'd have to shoot wide open at f/2/8 and the ISO bumped to 3200 to get acceptable shutter speeds with the K5, I knew the K10D would be worthless unless I used a strobe. So I did. Placed an AB1600 on camera left and used a Cybersync to fire it.

My "best" shots of the night were, ironically, captured with the K10D and flash.

2.

3.

I got very few good shots from the K5 and that were to my liking, sharpness wise. None of them met my standards, but I have a couple favorites:

4.

5.

6.

As you can see there is nothing extraordinary about these pictures. Out of the 968 shots I took, 512 remained after initial Lightroom selection. I was really pissed off, didn't like a majority of them. Nevertheless, the client was super satisfied (last year they hired a photog who shot with a D90 a 18-55mm... his shots were quite awful compared to mine, so you can imagine the atrocity considering my shots are nothing short of ordinary).

I was shooting in single point (central) and AF.C
AF.S didn't cut it for the fast dancers. And when the lighting was poor.

Notice how in #5 her arm is sharper than her eyes. I was focusing on her eyes. The viewfinder's deadcenter was set on her eyes. Focus still missed.

Halfway through the show I thought "I should have borrowed my friend's 5DMkIII".

Lesson learned. Client was happy and I know I fulfilled my obligations by giving the best work I could, but it was one of the first time I felt held back by the hardware. My portfolio is mostly studio work (babies, maternity, portrait or fashion) and in that regard, the K5 shines. However, as soon as you step out of a controlled environment, the K5's abilities are tested to their very maximum.

nfiduccia · 07-14-2012, 02:28 PM

Hi Francis,

The first shot is great! I can see that being used for promotions for future shows. Thank you for all the information on your setup. I have a friend who shoots Nutcracker and other dance shows (not as a professional). He is looking for new equipment, but his shooting style is different than yours. He shoots at 1/125 to 1/250 of a second at ISO 1600 to 3200 at f/4-5.6 mostly with a old canon 20D and consumer lens. He only shoots in AFS using the center focusing point. He has never used AFC. He is looking for a new camera that will give him much lower noise at high ISO. I suggested either the Nikon D7000 or the Pentax K5 because of the 16MP Sony sensor. I know that the K5 AF in AFS using the central focus point is fast and accurate enough. I do know that the focus accuracy of the K5 suffers in very low light under, but the light levels of the lighted dancers are not that low. Do you think my suggestions were good? Of course, he could go full-frame (D700, 800, or 5DIII), but at great cost. Since he doesn't make any money doing this, I though FF would make too much sense. Also, I suggested he get a f2.8 zoom lens since that should help with focus speed and accuracy. I am curious to hear you thoughts. Thanks. Nick

Whitewind · 07-19-2012, 11:38 PM

The Nikon of the past was good in terms of value, the D90 was a game changer because it was the first APC to have video (which was pretty bad for anything that involved focusing while shooting) and it had amazing low light performance for it's time and price at $800. its successor the D7000 cost more than 50% more than the D90 when it first came out which made me switch to the K-5. Part of the reason why Nikon can get away with charging such absurd prices is the low-mid end canon stuff has been horrible since the release of the D90. I don't have loyalties to any brand I just buy whatever has the best value and this time it was Pentax.

stevebrot · 07-21-2012, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by FrancisK7

My "best" shots of the night were, ironically, captured with the K10D and flash.

Well, there you go. The right tools for the job.

Steve

(For the record, Nikon would be my first choice if my K10D fails and Pentax does not have a decent offering at the time. Hate the way the Canon product handles...)

FrancisK7 · 07-21-2012, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Well, there you go. The right tools for the job.

Best tool for any photog job is good light. It's too bad I had to fight it off with the control booth guy to even place a single light.

In more professionally produced shows, flash is never allowed anyway, so you still need good high ISO performance and fast glass.

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07-05-2012, 07:12 PM	#16
garyk Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 488	The sorry POS K-5 lost me a once in a life time shoot of a bird in the jungle here in Thailand. Low light, and AF just plain did not work properly. My buddy had a Canon which I have gone to now. And almost every shot was spot on. It made me sick.

07-05-2012, 07:16 PM	#17
FrancisK7 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery Posts: 474	The K5 is not a POS by any mean. I've earned a good amount of money doing pro work with my Pentax gear. Notably a menu (which I photographed and designed) for an expensive French Bistro in Montreal. But if you earn a living (and are not only doing photog as a hobby) on a type of photography that is DEPENDENT on AF (sport, high fashion, entertainment business, etc.) the K5 certainly isn't the best tool for the job since its AF blows royally in comparison to Canon and Nikon AF systems. That is just a fact. For all other studio work, even macro, the K5 did the job. My business requirements simply require a more dependable and robust AF system in some cases, and the K5 is no longer good enough for my needs. I would certainly still recommend the K5. Saying it's a POS is a little extreme.

07-06-2012, 08:44 AM	#18
VaughnA Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,363	I've been with Nikon for about a year now. I occasionally miss my limiteds but overall I'm very happy with the results of the switch. As Francis said above if AF is important there is no comparison. I've done some recent auto racing and cycling shooting and I'd say that maybe 1 out of 25 or 30 were out of focus compared to about 30% when in the same situation with my K-x. Part of that could be that there were no focus indicators on the Kx but the D300 AF works much better than the Pentaxes that I've used (K20,10 and Kx). I'm sure the newer bodies are better but I doubt they compare to the nikon af system. But if I was sticking to landscape and other photography where fast AF wasn't important I'd probably go with pentax. I still miss my DA15..

07-06-2012, 10:09 AM	#19
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	I have a K-x and mostly shoot critters, why don't I get to experience the Pentax AF problem? I feel left out.

07-06-2012, 10:24 AM	#20
VoiceOfReason Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mishawaka IN area Photos: Albums Posts: 6,124	Yeah, I feel left out with my K5 too.

07-08-2012, 01:45 PM	#21
nfiduccia New Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 23	Originally posted by FrancisK7 And let us not forget the shitty AF on all Pentax cameras. During my dance show assignment the K5 struggled so much with the AF in low light it was a nightmare. Pentax has no gear that can match a 5DMkIII+85L or D800+24G/85G in IQ. It comes close, but then you factor in the FF advantage, AF and sync speed and there's no comparison. I'm 6'1" and work out five days a week, I can handle the extra bulk. Hi Francis, I am curious of light levels that you were shooting at for dance pictures? Also, were you shooting AF-S or AF-C? I have heard that in AFS, the K5 compares with the comparable Nikon (i.e. D7000). It's the AFC mode where the K5 falls behind (compared to the D7000). Also, the K5 suffers from accuracy problems under very low tungsten light. Yes, I am not surprised that you like the 5DIII or D800 compared to the K5. Also, the full framer's are brand new technology and the K5 is two years old. Nick

07-08-2012, 06:17 PM	#22
sb in ak Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Omaha, NE Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 612	I have a 5DII and Pentax K-5...the 5DII does hold an IQ advantage (mostly sharpness) unless there are shadows to be lifted. I think it's mostly a function of the higher MPs. Keep in mind that I haven't been able to test several lenses with the K-5. If there are shadows to lift, the K-5 takes it to the cleaners. The K-5 can also go places I wouldn't want to haul a FF camera. I don't do a lot of action stuff, so I have been contemplating selling the 5D as the K-5 is stellar in most situations. The 5DII isn't great for sports anyway. I would guess the Pentax engineers are hard at work improving AF as that is seen as Pentax's achilles heel at this point. I am hearing good things about the K-30 and there might be a killer camera to come out of Photokina. Last edited by sb in ak; 07-08-2012 at 06:24 PM.

07-08-2012, 06:28 PM	#23
LeDave Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minneapolis - St. Paul Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,067	Originally posted by garyk The sorry POS K-5 lost me a once in a life time shoot of a bird in the jungle here in Thailand. Low light, and AF just plain did not work properly. My buddy had a Canon which I have gone to now. And almost every shot was spot on. It made me sick. Going into Pentax you should already known that Pentax AF technology are possibly the worst when it comes to AF capabilities. Though knowing the K-30 did improve on that and is hopefully at least one generation down or less from Canikon in AF as my K-5 is probably 2 generations down. The K-5 is also not a POS either, there are a lot of upsides that make it more worth getting if you aren't planning to shoot anything rapidly in low-light, and not to mention that it has 9 cross-type AF points out of it's 11 which is useful when the AF is most working, in decent lighting or more.

07-08-2012, 06:31 PM	#24
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Originally posted by FrancisK7 Pentax has no gear that can match a 5DMkIII+85L or D800+24G/85G in IQ. It comes close, but then you factor in the FF advantage, AF and sync speed and there's no comparison. I'm 6'1" and work out five days a week, I can handle the extra bulk. APS-C DSLR's are excellent "jack of all trades masters of none" cameras. For IQ (& AF) the new FF cameras are much better... but the size! If you can handle the size & cost then go for it.

07-09-2012, 11:20 AM	#25
greatnw New Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 8	I just picked up a used KX with just over 120 shutter releases. These Pentax DSLR's look like great all around values to me. The thing that sets them apart is the shake reduction. While not quite as effective as an IS lens, it works on any lens mounted to the camera! My friends have canon's and nikon's. They are great and own the market, but I think Pentax is a real winner here.

07-09-2012, 12:04 PM	#26
FrancisK7 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery Posts: 474	Originally posted by nfiduccia Hi Francis, I am curious of light levels that you were shooting at for dance pictures? Also, were you shooting AF-S or AF-C? I have heard that in AFS, the K5 compares with the comparable Nikon (i.e. D7000). It's the AFC mode where the K5 falls behind (compared to the D7000). Also, the K5 suffers from accuracy problems under very low tungsten light. Yes, I am not surprised that you like the 5DIII or D800 compared to the K5. Also, the full framer's are brand new technology and the K5 is two years old. Nick The stage was rented by the dance group and belongs to a high school. The lighting was done on the fly by an amateur in the control room, he didn't really know what he was doing but he's been doing it for them for years. He didn't want me to use flash on "hIs" stage, he said it'd ruin the atmosphere. The client trusted my judgment over his, so I met him in the middle and asked to place one strobe so I could get a few decent shots. Even then, he did a poor job and couldn't light the dancers for most of the show. He succeeded less than five times, and I caught one such time: 1. The lighting was therefore terribly low. I had my K10D with a DA12-24 and a K5 with a DA*50-135. When I realized I'd have to shoot wide open at f/2/8 and the ISO bumped to 3200 to get acceptable shutter speeds with the K5, I knew the K10D would be worthless unless I used a strobe. So I did. Placed an AB1600 on camera left and used a Cybersync to fire it. My "best" shots of the night were, ironically, captured with the K10D and flash. 2. 3. I got very few good shots from the K5 and that were to my liking, sharpness wise. None of them met my standards, but I have a couple favorites: 4. 5. 6. As you can see there is nothing extraordinary about these pictures. Out of the 968 shots I took, 512 remained after initial Lightroom selection. I was really pissed off, didn't like a majority of them. Nevertheless, the client was super satisfied (last year they hired a photog who shot with a D90 a 18-55mm... his shots were quite awful compared to mine, so you can imagine the atrocity considering my shots are nothing short of ordinary). I was shooting in single point (central) and AF.C AF.S didn't cut it for the fast dancers. And when the lighting was poor. Notice how in #5 her arm is sharper than her eyes. I was focusing on her eyes. The viewfinder's deadcenter was set on her eyes. Focus still missed. Halfway through the show I thought "I should have borrowed my friend's 5DMkIII". Lesson learned. Client was happy and I know I fulfilled my obligations by giving the best work I could, but it was one of the first time I felt held back by the hardware. My portfolio is mostly studio work (babies, maternity, portrait or fashion) and in that regard, the K5 shines. However, as soon as you step out of a controlled environment, the K5's abilities are tested to their very maximum.

07-14-2012, 02:28 PM	#27
nfiduccia New Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 23	Hi Francis, The first shot is great! I can see that being used for promotions for future shows. Thank you for all the information on your setup. I have a friend who shoots Nutcracker and other dance shows (not as a professional). He is looking for new equipment, but his shooting style is different than yours. He shoots at 1/125 to 1/250 of a second at ISO 1600 to 3200 at f/4-5.6 mostly with a old canon 20D and consumer lens. He only shoots in AFS using the center focusing point. He has never used AFC. He is looking for a new camera that will give him much lower noise at high ISO. I suggested either the Nikon D7000 or the Pentax K5 because of the 16MP Sony sensor. I know that the K5 AF in AFS using the central focus point is fast and accurate enough. I do know that the focus accuracy of the K5 suffers in very low light under, but the light levels of the lighted dancers are not that low. Do you think my suggestions were good? Of course, he could go full-frame (D700, 800, or 5DIII), but at great cost. Since he doesn't make any money doing this, I though FF would make too much sense. Also, I suggested he get a f2.8 zoom lens since that should help with focus speed and accuracy. I am curious to hear you thoughts. Thanks. Nick

07-19-2012, 11:38 PM	#28
Whitewind Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 20	The Nikon of the past was good in terms of value, the D90 was a game changer because it was the first APC to have video (which was pretty bad for anything that involved focusing while shooting) and it had amazing low light performance for it's time and price at $800. its successor the D7000 cost more than 50% more than the D90 when it first came out which made me switch to the K-5. Part of the reason why Nikon can get away with charging such absurd prices is the low-mid end canon stuff has been horrible since the release of the D90. I don't have loyalties to any brand I just buy whatever has the best value and this time it was Pentax.

07-21-2012, 12:42 PM	#29
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by FrancisK7 My "best" shots of the night were, ironically, captured with the K10D and flash. Well, there you go. The right tools for the job. Steve (For the record, Nikon would be my first choice if my K10D fails and Pentax does not have a decent offering at the time. Hate the way the Canon product handles...)

07-21-2012, 02:20 PM	#30
FrancisK7 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery Posts: 474	Originally posted by stevebrot Well, there you go. The right tools for the job. Best tool for any photog job is good light. It's too bad I had to fight it off with the control booth guy to even place a single light. In more professionally produced shows, flash is never allowed anyway, so you still need good high ISO performance and fast glass.