[Pioneer]

Nikon would be my choise if i jump ship though, at least their higher end bodies are good in my hands, the canon ergonomics and they way they work is more confusing for me

You know, I feel the same way. When I look at both cameras I feel that the Nikon should be the one I like. But I have found out the hard way that Canon is actually easier for me to work with. Their ergonomics are not great but I can almost always figure out the Canon. I still own my Canon 5D while I wait patiently (??) for a Pentax FF. I enjoy it, I think my K7 is a much better camera in everything except focus speed and image, there the Canon definitely whups its butt. But the Canon is an absolute dust magnet. I have to always be cleaning it or I end up with dust spots on every image. Big puppies, and they seem to breed like rabbits, if I am not careful I have dust bunnies too. And if there is any moisture around I don't dare even walk outdoors with my Canon. I got caught in a rainstorm once with it and it took 3 days for it to come back to life. At the price of a Canon repair I am afraid to chance it a second time.

I have owned several Nikon cameras, an F100, F3, and an F2HP, and a few others that I can't remember. I have not liked any of them. As users they have been frustrating. Now their lenses, wow! I love Nikon glass, and it is almost worth putting up with the body to get that glass, almost!

If prices drop far enough on used 645Ds I'll buy one, but the present prices are too rich for my blood. But considering that I love my 645Nii as much as I do I am sure that I will end up with a used one 645D one day.

Patience, patience!!

[Crosshair]

I jumped ship from Nikon to Pentax. So if I get a good deal or get fed up with something on the k-5 (likely the AF system) I will jump back the ship But I would not call this ship-jumping since I think there should not be any more brand-loyalty. Nowadays there are two factors preventing me from changing brands again; 1- my k-5 is still relatively new, I want to use and grow on it for some time, and 2- I cannot find a non-FF Nikon or canon that can lure me to its brand after the k-5. I don't the like boxy look of the d7000 after the curves of the d90 which was my previous camera, d300 cannot match with the k-5 in IQ, the maybe the 60D but it feels like an upgrade in AF but downgrade in IQ, and 7D is too large and heavy for comfort. So at this point I am kinda stuck

[Frogfish]

FrancisK7: "...let's not kid ourselves. If you are after ultimate IQ, Pentax can't top certain Canikon combos (for identical photog skills across all kits)." Based on what evidence? For every great Canikon photo you could post as proof, I could find another ten Pentax (or Sony or Olympus) shots on Flickr that are just as nice or better.

As a birder I'd love to have a Pentax set up equivalent to Canon's that I could use on my K5. No 500/4, 600/4, 800/5.6 with superb 1.4 and 2.0 TCs to match. The best I can do is get a Sigma 500/4.5 (my next lens).

Currently the top birding/wildlife combos around are the D800E and 500mm or the 5Diii plus any of those lenses and TCs I mentioned above.

And if anyone mentions this fabled 560mm and TC we've seen on the road-map but have had no updates on and may not appear until the middle of next year, if ever, then the frying pan is coming out

[Edvinas]

Who says Pentax mounting way is correct?

Well, I thought that screwing/unscrewing direction is kind of standard thing

Anyway, I find it easier to change lens on Pentax than on Nikon (I use both).

[Edvinas]

FrancisK7: "...let's not kid ourselves. If you are after ultimate IQ, Pentax can't top certain Canikon combos (for identical photog skills across all kits)." Based on what evidence? For every great Canikon photo you could post as proof, I could find another ten Pentax (or Sony or Olympus) shots on Flickr that are just as nice or better.

Well, people do not display pictures which are bad. So, it's not a big task to find similar good picture taken with other camera.

I switched to Nikon FF. In most situations with K-5 I manage to get similar results, but it's the biggest difference is in effort put into taking those pictures. It's much easier to do that with Nikon. Much less manual intervention to fix things that camera does wrong (like misfocus, wrong exposure, wrong flash axposure). And percentago of keepers is much higher.

[Jeff Charles]

I switched to Nikon FF. In most situations with K-5 I manage to get similar results, but it's the biggest difference is in effort put into taking those pictures. It's much easier to do that with Nikon. Much less manual intervention to fix things that camera does wrong (like misfocus, wrong exposure, wrong flash axposure). And percentago of keepers is much higher.

The problems that you list - misfocus, wrong exposure, wrong flash exposure - don't have anything to do with FF vs. APS-C. Maybe those are just things that you feel Nikon does better. I don't use flash, so I do not know about that, but my K-5 misfocuses very rarely, and it usually gets exposure about right, although it is sometimes too conservative, IMO.

Still, even when the photo comes out darker than I want at default settings in Lightroom, it takes only a few seconds to make it right. I guess I am trying to understand specifically what additional effort your K-5 requires that your Nikon does not.

Although I take many photos that are not "keepers", it is almost always my fault, and not the camera's.

Jeff

[FrancisK7]

Jeff: it's very simple. Take a K5 and a fast zoom like the DA*50-135 in a dimly lit situation (like a ballet stage). Shoot at ISO3200 and wide open at f/2.8. Try to catch the dancers midair in AF.C mode. Good luck with that. You basically have to do it in AF.S.

Now attempt the same thing with a D800 and say, the 700-200. The AF won't miss once. That's what I imagine Edvinas meant to say. The K5 has limited capabilities compared to Canikon gear.

@zekewhipper: That is how you compare cameras. For the same job, which one will yield better results. Saying "show me a nice D800 pic and I'll show you a nice K5 pic from Flickr" is kindergarten logic. Totally asinine.

[Ivor K Ecks]

I notice this thread is developing into a FF versus APSC war
Comparing latest model Nikon FF cameras to a Pentax APSC camera that is nearly 2 years old is Asinine.
Neither Canon nor Nikon make a similar camera to the K5 which is more capable.

[Frogfish]

Jeff: it's very simple. Take a K5 and a fast zoom like the DA*50-135 in a dimly lit situation (like a ballet stage). Shoot at ISO3200 and wide open at f/2.8. Try to catch the dancers midair in AF.C mode. Good luck with that. You basically have to do it in AF.S.

Now attempt the same thing with a D800 and say, the 700-200. The AF won't miss once. That's what I imagine Edvinas meant to say. The K5 has limited capabilities compared to Canikon gear.

@zekewhipper: That is how you compare cameras. For the same job, which one will yield better results. Saying "show me a nice D800 pic and I'll show you a nice K5 pic from Flickr" is kindergarten logic. Totally asinine.

I'm sorry but that is a quite ridiculous comparison, not at all how you compare cameras and totally asinine !

You compare a newly introduced US$3,500 camera (with probably the world's most advanced AF) using the renowned 70-200 (both Nikon & Canon's) vs. a 2 yr old model US$800 camera with one of Pentax's slowest focusing lenses ! Why not compare versus a D7000 or 60D, which are in the right bracket, and say a Sigma 50-150 on the K5, which is much faster. That said you are still guessing the Nikon will catch the the ballet dancer in AF.C, as you actually have no idea, and then you exaggerate even further by saying it won't miss once !

The K5 has many advantages (as well as the odd disadvantage) over both the D7000, 60D and even the 7D but it is not at all an inferior camera when considered as a whole, as being voted Japanese Camera of the Year above the first two of those. If you want to check out the pros and cons go to snapsort.com for a quick run down. Seems you need it.

And just to show I am not biased in this regard I have stated in a couple of threads on PF in the past few days that I am about to buy the D800.

[Jeff Charles]

Jeff: it's very simple. Take a K5 and a fast zoom like the DA*50-135 in a dimly lit situation (like a ballet stage). Shoot at ISO3200 and wide open at f/2.8. Try to catch the dancers midair in AF.C mode. Good luck with that. You basically have to do it in AF.S.

Now attempt the same thing with a D800 and say, the 700-200. The AF won't miss once. That's what I imagine Edvinas meant to say. The K5 has limited capabilities compared to Canikon gear.

I don't doubt for a minute that the D800 is a more capable camera than the K-5, but it is in a different class, and it costs much more. However, the D800's superiority is not going make a difference for a lot of photography.

The point that I was primarily responding to was the idea that getting good results from the K-5 requires much more effort. I still do not know specifically what extra effort is required.

Jeff

[reeftool]

I'm sorry but that is a quite ridiculous comparison, not at all how you compare cameras and totally asinine !

You compare a newly introduced US$3,500 camera (with probably the world's most advanced AF) using the renowned 70-200 (both Nikon & Canon's) vs. a 2 yr old model US$800 camera with one of Pentax's slowest focusing lenses ! Why not compare versus a D7000 or 60D, which are in the right bracket, and say a Sigma 50-150 on the K5, which is much faster. That said you are still guessing the Nikon will catch the the ballet dancer in AF.C, as you actually have no idea, and then you exaggerate even further by saying it won't miss once !

The K5 has many advantages (as well as the odd disadvantage) over both the D7000, 60D and even the 7D but it is not at all an inferior camera when considered as a whole, as being voted Japanese Camera of the Year above the first two of those. If you want to check out the pros and cons go to snapsort.com for a quick run down. Seems you need it.

And just to show I am not biased in this regard I have stated in a couple of threads on PF in the past few days that I am about to buy the D800.

I agree. You have to compare like models although the OP was comparing the D3000 to a Kr which is a very fair comparison. I purchased a used D200 last year for my daughter as she owned Nikon film camera and had some Nikon glass. I couldn't resist playing with it some. The ergonomics, weight, handling and size, were similar to my K10D. The controls, menus, etc I wasn't impressed with. They have a lot more settings and options in the menus and while useful and probably important to some, I felt confused. Nikons flash systems are probably the best for flash shooters. I rarely use one. Their 18-55 kit lens is considerably heavier and larger and has a very cheap feel to it compared to the Pentax kit. The IQ is very good. Their AF is a little faster and very reliable. I had compared the D200 to the K10D in the store 5 years ago and bought it because it just plain felt better in my hands and I was able get out and get some quality shots on day one and before I read the manual.

After 4 years of experience of shooting with a DSLR my opinion is still the same. I like the K10D better although the D200 is a fine camera. As for ergonomics, I like the K10D better than the K5 also. I use both bodies on a regular basis.The K10D just fits my meat hook hands better. A lot of these discussions involve personal preferences and they are going to be very different from person to person. Pentax for years has made their cameras with ergonomics and handling as one of the most important things and old magazine ads suggested you visit your local camera store and handle one. I certainly hope Pentax carries on the tradition. That said, Nikon has been around a long time and has a lot of loyal customers too. My daughter prefers the Nikons over the Pentax bodies.

[Jeff Charles]

Why not compare versus a D7000 or 60D, which are in the right bracket, and say a Sigma 50-150 on the K5...

I do not believe that a Sigma 50-150 is available in K-mount. The prior version has been discontinued, and they've only announced Sigma, Canon, and Nikon versions of the new one.

[sb in ak]

FF cameras like the D800 are great.... but their achilles heel is their bulk. Size, great WR and IQ are where the current Pentax DSLRs excel.

[Frogfish]

I do not believe that a Sigma 50-150 is available in K-mount. The prior version has been discontinued, and they've only announced Sigma, Canon, and Nikon versions of the new one.

As you can see in my signature I have one, though you are correct, they are no longer in production for Pentax. It can still be picked up used as they come up every month or so. However for comparative purposes it still has far more in common with the 70-200 than the 50-135 does (though nowhere near as large/heavy) !

[FrancisK7]

I'm sorry but that is a quite ridiculous comparison

It isn't. It's unfair maybe, but not ridiculous. Nor asinine. You have to be wacked to think it's an asinine comparison. Do you know what the word means?

K5 is the best Pentax has to offer, and the DA*50-135 arguably its best longer zoom. There's no better bodies money can buy in the APS-C Pentax line-up, so we're comparing the best vs the best.

The dude made a blank general statement that there was no evidence that suggested that Nikon had body/lens combos Pentax couldn't even touch in terms of IQ and abilities.

THAT is an asinine statement.

My simple experience with a D800 or a 5DMkIII clearly puts these bodies on top of the best Pentax has to offer.