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01-25-2008, 04:05 AM   #16
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[QUOTE=PentaxPoke;161571]Something just doesn't seem right. The picture on the right is from the camera held vertically? There is no background light in that case, there are plenty of mid tones, and as long as you weren't on spot metering, that jiuce box shouldn't have thrown off the multi-segment metering that badly.

That is what I would have thought. If the image was "averaged" to make the midtones gray, then that small amount of reflexion on the foil bag should have not thrown off the meter that much.

Something is set that we are not thinking about. Were any pictures from this event fine, or were they all this badly underexposed? No one can tell me that this is typical of the k10d.

The funny thing is that I have plenty of pics that I shot with the same metering mode and program mode that seemed fine. I will go back and post some of the other ones.

One more thought...Did you check what the exposure values were for these pictures? With the original jpeg we could see what all the values were in the EXIF (fstop, aperture, ISO). I just realized you used the kit lens and were inside, and did not use a flash. Is it entirely possible that this is just an underexposed pic beyond the limits of the camera with that lens? Was either the aperture or shutter speed values flashing when you metered? When I am indoors I don't even bother taking out my zoom. I use my 50/1.4.

How do I look up the EXIF info so I could post it?

Oh yeah, I thought of something else...what is your auto ISO limit? You may have that set so that your camera could not auto adjust the iso high enough for an exposure indoors. The default is something like 400.

Because I shoot so much inside (2 young daughters in the house...) I do keep it on AUTO ISO, but set the high end of the ISO to 800-1600!

01-25-2008, 06:14 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by jjfdvm72 Quote
would there be a way to "test" the light meter? It just seems that my small canon a70 point and shoot digital does a LOT better job measuring the right exposure. Don't take me wrong, i love the k10, but I feel I'm missing something out with the exposures
I think matrix metering isn't a strong point for Pentax. My K10D and earlier K100D were much worse at this than my Olympus (high-end) point and shoot, and worse than my friend's Canon 10D and 30D which I sometimes borrow.

I therefore try to use the less "intelligent" but more predictable center-weighted or spot metering when the matrix metering is having trouble.
01-25-2008, 07:32 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by jjfdvm72 Quote
I have read previously that the K10D tends to slightly underexpose the pictures. Yet it seems that with my K10, its not a consistent, mild underexposure, but rather an occasional WAY underexpose pics. (snip)

Actually, both images look like flash pictures where the flash itself did not actually fire. Did you attempt to use flash with these two images? If so, what flash unit (brand, model, etc) are your using? While we're on the subject, what lens are you using? It might be possible for a lens not properly set to the "A" mode to generate such images.

stewart


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Last edited by stewart_photo; 01-25-2008 at 07:51 AM.
01-25-2008, 07:34 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
I think matrix metering isn't a strong point for Pentax. (snip)

That may or may not be true, Matt. However, I've taken thousands of shots with my K10D and absolutely none of them have come out anywhere close to this dark. With the first image, even the outside in the background (with vehicles) seems somewhat underexposed. That is not typical of the K10D.

stewart

01-25-2008, 07:53 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Actually, both images look like flash pictures where the flash itself did not actually fire. Did you attempt to use flash with these two images? If so, what flash unit (brand, model, etc) are your using?

stewart
I wondered if it was the built in flash at 55mm on the kit lens and not using slow sync flash mode. Not only not enough power in the flash to start with but the p-ttl cutting it out due to the reflections from the foil and then without the slow sync flash P and Av modes would have a shutter that is about 1/80 which would be far to fast for the kit lens in that lighting.

I've recently been fighting to get similar shots of my kids using the flash on my GX-1S and finally read my manual enough times that I understand how the slow sync flash works on my camera (my ghads it is a cumbersome way to do it - I'm considering upgrading to the K10/20D just to get a dedicated slow sync flash mode)

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01-25-2008, 08:05 AM   #21
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Apperantly the EXIF info is as following: f/5.6, iso200, pattern metering, Apperture priority. It was set to ISO auto. Didn't see anything about the flash being suppressed.
01-25-2008, 08:07 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Actually, both images look like flash pictures where the flash itself did not actually fire. Did you attempt to use flash with these two images? If so, what flash unit (brand, model, etc) are your using? While we're on the subject, what lens are you using? It might be possible for a lens not properly set to the "A" mode to generate such images.

stewart


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Even My D will produce images like this ONLY in flash mode and sometimes the flash firing isn't truely noticeable in the image. Doesn't take much "bounce back" to really blow the image. So I agree, these were probably failed (as in meter fooled not non-firing) flash pictures....
01-25-2008, 08:11 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Actually, both images look like flash pictures where the flash itself did not actually fire. Did you attempt to use flash with these two images? If so, what flash unit (brand, model, etc) are your using?
Oh, hey, along those lines: do you have the "Release when Chrging" [sic] option set to "2 On" in the configuration menu?

01-25-2008, 08:16 AM   #24
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Here are some more underexposed from the same day.
Attached Images
 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K10D  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K10D  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K10D  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K10D  Photo 
01-25-2008, 08:18 AM   #25
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and these two had exactly the same EXIF settings...
Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K10D  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K10D  Photo 
01-25-2008, 08:27 AM   #26
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1. Are you using the popup flash ?
2. Are you using "slow sync" flash mode.

Look I'm just a beginner and I've been fighting with flash over the holiday season but look at the exif data and have a think about the settings that are being used. At a guess you are looking at a light level between EV5 and EV7 (basic artificial light indoor scene) meaning without flash your kit lens is going to need something in the order of 1/8 to 1/4 of a second - the last photo (in the second batch) is f5.6 1/60 at 55mm using Av mode. In the size of place that a lot of those photo's were taken the popup flash won't make a dent. I doubt even the 540 would do you much good.

I've found with flash using Tv mode is far better that way you can control the shutter speed to get as much ambient light as possible. In my camera I have to but you've got "slow sync" mode on your flash.

As for the last 2 images I'd say the difference is due to the guy at the end in the second photo making a gap.

Barney

Last edited by BarneyCG; 01-25-2008 at 09:02 AM. Reason: done some more research
01-25-2008, 09:42 AM   #27
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I was using the pop-up flash and had the flash on regular, red-eye reduction mode. It makes sense what you say about the flash, but I wonder why the camera did not show a slower shutter speed or bigger apperture if there was not enough light for the flash to do the job?

BTW, I am looking into purchasing a 360 flash in hope to have better indoor pics
01-25-2008, 10:05 AM   #28
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Did you check the setting I mentioned? If that is turned on, it will allow the shutter activate even though the flash isn't ready to go. I don't think the exposure program keeps track of the exact state of "underpoweredness" -- it just assumes that the flash is as normal and computes the exposure to match. Then, when the flash isn't able to muster a full flash, you get underexposure.

Note also that the built-in flash really doesn't have the power to provide good light in an across-the-warehouse situation like that in a few of your pictures. (But the exposure program will know that, so that isn't the cause of your problems.)
01-25-2008, 10:13 AM   #29
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This is NOT typical of the k10d. Most of my pics are indoors, and in poorly lit gyms at that (no flash). I have never had underexposed images like this. I see that the flash was on for all pics?

Last edited by PentaxPoke; 01-25-2008 at 10:19 AM.
01-25-2008, 11:38 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by jjfdvm72 Quote
I was using the pop-up flash and had the flash on regular, red-eye reduction mode. It makes sense what you say about the flash, but I wonder why the camera did not show a slower shutter speed or bigger apperture if there was not enough light for the flash to do the job?
Totally expected behaviour Program and Av modes will always select a shutter speed that is 1/focal length when the flash is up if you've not selected slow sync. If you have s.s on then it will expose for the ambient light. It is all in the manual.
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