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01-25-2008, 11:29 AM   #16
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Thats all fine and dandy, but will it make me breakfast?

01-25-2008, 12:11 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by pgenovese Quote
I have 2 K10Ds and never found the file naming to be an issue even when the 2 cameras produced the same file names during the same shoot.
I do, because I don't rename files when importing, and can have the same image name days or weeks apart. it is so easy to fix I just don't see why they did not already
QuoteQuote:

The TC factor option would be a very nice addition its an easy software fix. This would also improve the SR system performance because currently the SR assumes the fl of the lens without the TC
agreed
QuoteQuote:
Re the lens profiles that would be very nice to have but I'm not sure whether it is possible to implement without the aperture coupler.
yes, for all the AE lenses, it is easy to check the scaling with any photo editor and a series of test shots
QuoteQuote:
I believe that SDM was pentax's first step towards faster AF and that we will see AF improvements in the future and hopefully more FPS as well.

I beleive that the K20D will be a success mainly on the back of its IQ and value for money this should attract a new constituency of users who will be the market for a K1D.
no comment
QuoteQuote:
If they really want to chomp into C & N market share they also must complete the lens lineup.

The one thing that Pentax really knows how to do is how to build fantastic lenses. They have the designs and probably still have the tooling for all the old greats so bringing them up to date for digital should not be outside their capabilities. I personally would love to see the FA* 80-200 f/2.8, FA* 250-600 F/5.6, FA* 85 f/1.4, FA* 200 f/4 macro, the venerable A* 400 f/2.8 but with SDM AF.

EDIT: Oh yes one more thing... TCs that support SDM.. The new 200 f/2.8 + a set of 1.4x and 2x SDM TCs would make a lovely setup.

Regards
Patrick
fully agree on these last points, the camera itself does not make a system. we should also look for a 300 f2.8 sdm. Pentax are still selling the old version with screw drive. Same for the 600 F4, but my preference would be a 400F2.8 and matched 1.4 and 2x TCs.
01-25-2008, 08:27 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
do keep one thing in mind

there is such a thing as a professional troll, i would not be surprised at all if each of the individual companies had a covert department for underhard marketing

infiltrate popular forums where your target market discusses your target goods (or the goods of your competitors) and either create a persona which gains respect, then start feeing propaganda, or just go on the forum and start with propaganda without building any character

either way the word gets spread around... and like i said, i would not be surprised if thats what we are seeing here and places like DPreview.

so i think its pointless to try and battle the trolls or those people that simply complain alot, the camera isnt even out for Christs sake!!! i say dont waste your time and just let it slide.

on the other hand... judging from what YOU write, i would NOT be surprised if you were somehow funded by Pentax too.... not that i'm pointing any fingers.
Dunno about this. People who are overzealous and treat their brand of choice as religion might do this, but manufacturers certainly won't employ people just to do this. Waste of money, especially with the markets plunging.

And even if it were true (which I highly doubt), those paid propagandists would do better to post stuff over at DPReview than here, since most likely, people coming over here already have a positive bias towards Pentax, with the exception of some fanatics.
01-25-2008, 08:32 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
the real difference is that what I have listed are things that can easily be done, add a lot of benefit for people who actually USE the camera, and older lenses, or have multiple cameras, or have found real issues with the incorrect shake reduction csimply because they cannot have it fully correct for the teleconverter.
I haven't used teleconverters yet, so I'm not familiar with this issue. It's quite possibly another point in-lens IS proponents might use against in-body IS.

01-25-2008, 08:38 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
jezuz krist how low do you want it to be?


a 40D is ~ 1299, a D300 is ~1800, a D200 is ~1400


so if the pentax retails for 1299, its a ****ing steal!
Maybe for some it is, for others it isn't. I'd certainly hold off on buying until the price comes down. Unfortunately, a lot of Pentax users aren't as well-off as you are, since you're considering the K20D an effing steal.

As well, it also depends on your style of shooting. Some really have need (not just want) for better AF and higher FPS, so the K20D now becomes less of an effing steal for them. I don't, but as mentioned above, I'm not that well-off yet to buy the K20D at the price it's sitting at now.
01-25-2008, 08:39 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
I haven't used teleconverters yet, so I'm not familiar with this issue. It's quite possibly another point in-lens IS proponents might use against in-body IS.
No, it is really an oversight and somethig that until shake reduction came out, was not specified in the lens mount design.

but it is fixable, I just whish they got around to doing it.
01-26-2008, 02:01 PM   #22
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Gooshin,
Relative cost is not the same thing as absolute cost. I am a strong proponent of the Pentax line as top value among its competitors. However, a strong relative value doesn't mean something isn't expensive in an absolute sense. Especially when the poster referencing it as such has indicated it is being compared to a ~520 upgrade to a k10d. In that sense, the 20d is "yikes" TO ME in both relative and absolute senses. It is expensive compared to a k10d upgrade, and in an absolute sense of ~$1200 is a lot to spend on a camera, I don't care how much money you have. It doesn't mean it's not worth it..it certainly seems it is, but ~$1200 is still ~$1200.
01-26-2008, 02:28 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
2) tele converter correction factor. On the K10D if you use a TC that passes focal length through from the lens to the camera, you are forced to have that focal length and not the resulting focal length including the TC for shake reduction. This is a real defect. did they fix it on the K20??? I don't see anything to suggest they have.
Why oh why can't we set TC multiplier in the menu just like we can set focal length of older lenses?? A simple firmware upgrade should do the trick.

01-26-2008, 02:40 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matjazz Quote
Why oh why can't we set TC multiplier in the menu just like we can set focal length of older lenses?? A simple firmware upgrade should do the trick.
you don't know how many times I have asked pentax for that. It's such a stupid trival oversight, but they keep releasing software without it.

They seem to think image stabilization is important, they market the camera specifically with that in mind yet it has a fundamental flaw they won't address.

I guess pentax is right in thier adds, "we aren't good at marketing" Gee No Kidding!
01-26-2008, 02:49 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by pgenovese Quote
I have 2 K10Ds and never found the file naming to be an issue even when the 2 cameras produced the same file names during the same shoot.

The TC factor option would be a very nice addition its an easy software fix. This would also improve the SR system performance because currently the SR assumes the fl of the lens without the TC

Re the lens profiles that would be very nice to have but I'm not sure whether it is possible to implement without the aperture coupler.

I believe that SDM was pentax's first step towards faster AF and that we will see AF improvements in the future and hopefully more FPS as well.

I beleive that the K20D will be a success mainly on the back of its IQ and value for money this should attract a new constituency of users who will be the market for a K1D.

If they really want to chomp into C & N market share they also must complete the lens lineup.

The one thing that Pentax really knows how to do is how to build fantastic lenses. They have the designs and probably still have the tooling for all the old greats so bringing them up to date for digital should not be outside their capabilities. I personally would love to see the FA* 80-200 f/2.8, FA* 250-600 F/5.6, FA* 85 f/1.4, FA* 200 f/4 macro, the venerable A* 400 f/2.8 but with SDM AF.

EDIT: Oh yes one more thing... TCs that support SDM.. The new 200 f/2.8 + a set of 1.4x and 2x SDM TCs would make a lovely setup.

Regards
Patrick
The only way to get the multiplied focal lenght is to offer an option to do it manually, at the moment. The current TCs just pass on the lens data, they have no capability of sending focal length info to the body or altering the one from the lens. It is either manual or new fancy chipped TCs.
01-26-2008, 02:59 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by dkittle Quote
jmbower, I've seen a Canadian online store post an 'estimated' price of $1399. I think Pentax's suggested retail for the K20D is $1299 US. Hopefully someone will offer it at a grand even, otherwise it'll likely be Christmas before I can contemplate an upgrade...

With the Candian Looney higher than the greenback, I wonder how sellers are going to continue to justify always quoting the Cn price higher than the US price..... Seems to be a habit there.....
01-26-2008, 03:16 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by ricardobeat Quote
The only way to get the multiplied focal lenght is to offer an option to do it manually, at the moment. The current TCs just pass on the lens data, they have no capability of sending focal length info to the body or altering the one from the lens. It is either manual or new fancy chipped TCs.

Yes, the TC's are an issue. they seem to baffle an SDM lens.

On the AF issue generally, I suspect that we may need to watch what we pray for.

What would we say if the price of ann intelligent, tracking does everything AF system which only worked with SDM lenses and broke the backwards compatibility model for all others???

Pentax is using a lens mount tht is now 33 years old with an ability to use lenses made even before that. Competitors have forced their users to throw all their lens collection down the back stairs from time to time. Providing a camera body that works reasonably well with a lifetime assortment of lenses presents some issues.
01-26-2008, 04:05 PM   #28
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Read several of the K20D posts with both interest & bemusement. To be honest though I'm delighted with my K10D (well actually GX10) so am not even thinking of upgrading !!

simon
01-26-2008, 05:32 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
Yes, the TC's are an issue. they seem to baffle an SDM lens.

On the AF issue generally, I suspect that we may need to watch what we pray for.

What would we say if the price of ann intelligent, tracking does everything AF system which only worked with SDM lenses and broke the backwards compatibility model for all others???

Pentax is using a lens mount tht is now 33 years old with an ability to use lenses made even before that. Competitors have forced their users to throw all their lens collection down the back stairs from time to time. Providing a camera body that works reasonably well with a lifetime assortment of lenses presents some issues.
To be honest, the real issue is that the TC and its function was never thought through totally. While I agree the mount is over 30 years old, that does not mean it is useless. as I have said and others also commented, the real issue was a simple oversight. on boot up, just like the lens focal length when not sensed, there could be a TC ratio, 1, 1.4, 1.5, 1.7, 2.

no big deal.

for new bodies they can always add an 8th contact similar to the AE mode contact, and have it auto sense with the TC feeding back its ratio
01-26-2008, 05:56 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
jezuz krist how low do you want it to be?


a 40D is ~ 1299, a D300 is ~1800, a D200 is ~1400


so if the pentax retails for 1299, its a ****ing steal!

I think that is a uncalled for answer.. He just wasn't expecting it to be 700+ more that he could pickup a K10 for.
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