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01-26-2008, 06:09 PM   #31
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Oh my God, people, you EVER stop complaining at all? I agree with Chris, K20 is a HUGE leap ahead over K10, with all the main problems fixed. It gives (as far as I''ve seen) great IQ, and hey, photography is about great pictures in the very end, right?

K10 was THE winner, IQ-wise in it's generation (best IQ of all 10MP cameras of that generation), and K20 is great successor to it, beating all it's rivals in this field. Yes, Pentaxes are not reporter's choice, true. They never been. So it's only natural that they keep improving their strong sides, to keep the IQ unreachable to rivals, rathen then trying to catch Canon where it's perfect (AF speed, FPS).

K20 is not the ideal camera? Sure it is not. We live in a real world, where nothing is perfect, remember? You want great FPS and AF speed? Just get a Canon and live with it's strange color rendition, why you're getting a Pentax and keep complaining if it's SO important to you personally?

01-26-2008, 06:23 PM   #32
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Theory vs Practice

QuoteOriginally posted by Matjazz Quote
Why oh why can't we set TC multiplier in the menu just like we can set focal length of older lenses?? A simple firmware upgrade should do the trick.
just a minor point: Does it really matter? Is SR reduced significantly or is it a matter of semantics.
Is SR at 200 different in a real sense than if set at 400???? just curious. What does it mean when you set the sr in the menu for non-a lenses?
I can see ways to test this but not sure they would be good ways...
Yes an "override" function seems to be a very simple solution. Why it doesn't exist is a bit baffeling except if you assume 1)it makes little difference what the lens is set to within reason (most tc's will be used w/ 100mm or greater lenses) 2)Pentax doesn't want to cater to the old lenses more then they have to. 3)new focal length/aperature aware TC's are being thought out.
4) It's an area they want to keep as KISS (keep it simple stupid) for the users and the programmers... 5) Add your own....ect.
Not knowing any better, if you just mask off the tc contacts and dial in the new effective focal length the lens (if really an A) could still be used in all modes except I suppose green. The lens will still stop down I believe since the coupler is still functional and will meter wide open ect....guess you would lose matrix metering, wireless flash but nothing critical I think. Just thinking......always though the RAM space for the code was quite restrictive and who knows, maybe there just isn't room, though I doubt if it would need more than a few bytes...
01-26-2008, 06:34 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
These issues you mention were not the hot topic for the full year of the K10D. They wish wish-list items to improve certain aspects.
As noted in [some other thread I started but am too lazy to look up now], what really amazes me is the number of "not hot topic" complaints which they did address. It's seriously rare for companies to be that responsive to their users.
01-26-2008, 07:58 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
you don't know how many times I have asked pentax for that. It's such a stupid trival oversight, but they keep releasing software without it.

They seem to think image stabilization is important, they market the camera specifically with that in mind yet it has a fundamental flaw they won't address.

I guess pentax is right in thier adds, "we aren't good at marketing" Gee No Kidding!
Perhaps their reasoning goes like this ...

TC = Long Lens = Tripod = SR Off

01-26-2008, 08:02 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rickster Quote
Perhaps their reasoning goes like this ...

TC = Long Lens = Tripod = SR Off
If that was the case why bother with SR at all.

a 200mm F2.8 and 2x TC is a very hand holdable weight 400mm, but the SR is set to 200.

There are 2 reasons for SR, very low light and hand hold of short lenses, the other is hand hold long lenses, during moderate light.


I agree a tripod is necessary for a 15 pound 600mm F4 but not for something smaller and lighter than a bigma
01-26-2008, 08:13 PM   #36
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And the "Moderator" says...

QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
I'm starting to see waaaaay to many complaints about the K20D and this forums doesn't need multiple complaint threads like DPReview. ...(snip)... Sorry guys, but in all honesty you don't make any sense. ...(snip)... if you have a concern with Pentax voice it to them ...(snip)... look at some of the things I've pointed out here and maybe you'll calm down a little ...(snip)...

You know, it might be a good idea to separate, in some manner, your posts containing personal opinion from your posts as official moderator. At this point, it's getting very difficult to determine what is the official position of this forum versus what is your opinion open for debate. I started to comment in some length about how this forum is quickly becoming your personal platform (your "2500 word essay" dominating the Pentax News sub-forum, your attempts to limit complaints with this thread, your comments in other threads with the moderator tag attached that individuals clearly hesitate to respond to, and so on), and how others should have a free and equal say (even if it is just the complaints you mention here), but decided not to because of the word "moderator" attached to the message (no desire to get forum moderators mad at me).

Disclaimer: I've made no complaints whatsoever about the K20D, nor have any particular bone to pick with you, so this message is not an attempt (an agenda) to undermine either your or your comments here, Chris. Instead, it is just my honest opinion about the specific things mentioned in the paragraph directly above.

stewart
01-26-2008, 08:55 PM   #37
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
You know, it might be a good idea to separate, in some manner, your posts containing personal opinion from your posts as official moderator. At this point, it's getting very difficult to determine what is the official position of this forum versus what is your opinion open for debate. I started to comment in some length about how this forum is quickly becoming your personal platform (your "2500 word essay" dominating the Pentax News sub-forum, your attempts to limit complaints with this thread, your comments in other threads with the moderator tag attached that individuals clearly hesitate to respond to, and so on), and how others should have a free and equal say (even if it is just the complaints you mention here), but decided not to because of the word "moderator" attached to the message (no desire to get forum moderators mad at me).

Disclaimer: I've made no complaints whatsoever about the K20D, nor have any particular bone to pick with you, so this message is not an attempt (an agenda) to undermine either your or your comments here, Chris. Instead, it is just my honest opinion about the specific things mentioned in the paragraph directly above.

stewart
I'm glad you're being honest Stewart because you've always been such an amazing forum member who constantly helps and listens.

It was a tough decision for me honestly to take the Mod position because of my normal attitude on the forum might clash a little, just as you have pointed out. I felt it was better to just take the Mod position to help with some of the general forum maintenance, like today I moved 200 threads from the marketplace to the sold thread, but still act like I always do. I'm still the same Chris everyone knows and loves .... you know whats funny. It's kind of like having your good friend at high school and then he becomes a hall monitor, it's really how I feel.

I hope it's ok to have my personal views on the site like I always did

The essay was to give a little more insight on the K20D from someone who actually handled the camera and I posted to the other Mods that I was going to put it up and asked them if it was cool and no one shot down the idea so up it went.

The only problem now is do I let ya walk down the hall without a pass

Thanks Stewart!
01-26-2008, 11:04 PM   #38
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K10, K20, m-m-mK?

QuoteOriginally posted by Snowcat Quote
snip...K20 is not the ideal camera? Sure it is not. We live in a real world, where nothing is perfect, remember?...snip...
I pretty much agree with the sense of Snowcat's gentle chiding and the above quoted reminder. I've worked in numerous fields over the years with both "perfect" and imperfect tools, and most were of the latter sort. For decades now, I've owned a couple hammers that are nigh on indestructible and always get the job done, and back in the '70s, I contributed in a small way to the space shuttle program. You might have noticed that a couple of those amazing but complex machines didn't come back to Earth in one piece.

Well, to translate all that to the language of things Pentax, my Spotmatic shoots as well as ever, which is pretty darn well. My K10D is like an Area 51 hangar job compared to my Wright Brothers'–like Spotmatic in terms of technical sophistication. So far, I've not had a catastrophic failure to get the job done with either camera. My percentage of keepers is still higher with the Spotmatic, but I've got decades of experience with that simple but elegant camera to thank for that. I'd be happy to shoot the K10D for half as long, because its results so far promise so much more capability. A good enough measure of progress, IMO.

The introduction of the K20D seems to have raised the bar substantially on the capabilities of the Pentax digital line. It isn't everything everyone might have hoped it would be; on the other hand, it's being introduced at about the introductory list price of the K10D back in 2006. Substantially improved camera/similar list price=even better value!

I'd guess that Pentax/Samsung put their available but limited R&D money where they thought it would matter most, IQ. If the result pleases enough Pentaxians and draws in enough buyers stepping up from P&S and other brands (ahem!), then maybe the successor cameras in 2009-10 will ramp up the FPS, AF performance, and some of the other concerns that customers have.* If not, the K20D may represent a worthy ultimate showing from a fine old firm that lost the sales race to Canikon. I'll put my money on a bet that says that Pentax can maintain its third place in sales at a bit better market share than it now has. If it can do that and somewhat improve its margins, I'd also be willing to bet that Hoya will put more R&D money into the firm. If so, the cameras will probably continue to improve. Will they ever be "perfect"? Nah, but they'll be taking some great looking pictures in the hands of Pentaxians who have a clue what to do with them!

*Could some of that trickle down to us "legacy" K10D owners? That'd be nice, too!

01-27-2008, 07:33 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
...(snip)... It was a tough decision for me honestly to take the Mod position because of my normal attitude on the forum might clash a little, just as you have pointed out. I felt it was better to just take the Mod position to help with some of the general forum maintenance, ...(snip)...

I don't envy your position, Chris. I don't go off on a rant at that often, but like the freedom to do so when I feel like it. As a moderator, I'd feel an obligation to at least temper that somewhat. My particular solution (not necessarily a recommendation to you) might be to create an account for each of my two personalities - the moderator and the me certainly not all (as in none) have come to love and admire. But enough of all this. Take care.

stewart
01-27-2008, 07:48 AM   #40
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I have one more fixed items for you list:
PC-sync conntact.
It is not one of the rally hott issues, but it sure is valid to some users.

Tim
01-27-2008, 09:42 PM   #41
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I got paged last week by our Fire Dep't to take images of two structure fires. The second one was on a very cold (22F) dark night at around 9pm. I grabbed one bag and rushed out of the door and drove to the location. By the time I got there the structure was well engulfed. I retrieved my K10 and then realized I had left my flash behind in my other bag (damn senior moments)

Too late to go back, had to deal with shooting, less flash.

All images were taken hand held using AF. These are two of them.

1. ISO 1600. 1/25 sec. F4.0.

2. ISO 1600. 1/5 sec. F4.0.

Lens. Sigma APO 70-300mm (Gold Ring) Not the fastest lens on the planet, but considering the situation not bad shots with no flash, hand held.

I am very happy with the AF on the K10. It would appear some AF problems reported by DSLR owners are nothing more than just plain old finger trouble !!

Yes, I know I have Senior Moment Trouble !!

Rag




Last edited by maxamillion; 01-27-2008 at 09:56 PM.
01-27-2008, 10:48 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxamillion Quote
I am very happy with the AF on the K10. It would appear some AF problems reported by DSLR owners are nothing more than just plain old finger trouble !!
Complaints are because of poor AF on moving objects. AF on static objects is fast and accurate. No complaints here.

BTW, I like second picture
01-28-2008, 09:50 AM   #43
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Edvinas,

Thanks.

Rag
01-28-2008, 04:18 PM   #44
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I believe that one of the problems with the problems of the K10D is that people tend to complain more about what they've got, rather than what they haven't got. Thus the complaints about the VPN etc. If that camera claimed 5fps, but only delivered 3fps, then I think there would have been many complaints about "only" 3fps. Make sense?
01-28-2008, 04:36 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxamillion Quote
I got paged last week by our Fire Dep't to take images of two structure fires. The second one was on a very cold (22F) dark night at around 9pm. I grabbed one bag and rushed out of the door and drove to the location. By the time I got there the structure was well engulfed. I retrieved my K10 and then realized I had left my flash behind in my other bag (damn senior moments)

Too late to go back, had to deal with shooting, less flash.

All images were taken hand held using AF. These are two of them.

1. ISO 1600. 1/25 sec. F4.0.

2. ISO 1600. 1/5 sec. F4.0.

Lens. Sigma APO 70-300mm (Gold Ring) Not the fastest lens on the planet, but considering the situation not bad shots with no flash, hand held.

I am very happy with the AF on the K10. It would appear some AF problems reported by DSLR owners are nothing more than just plain old finger trouble !!

Yes, I know I have Senior Moment Trouble !!

Rag
I have to agree with you, I see complaints about poor AF, and Poor low light performance (Usually togethrer) and poor ISO1600 performance.

I like your shots, and I will say again, I challenge anyone who can show me a film shot at 1600 ISO (b7w or color) with the quality of these shots. Are they grainy, compared to 100 ISO sure they are, Are they better than film at 1600 ISO , SURE THEY ARE.

As to your senior moment, perhaps you will appreciate my comments as you are certainly old enough to remember that funny stuff in a canister, that you soaked in chemicals for half an hour to develop. You know what I mean, I think it was called film,
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