Pentax K100D Batteries problem

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-31-2008, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by madphys

Yes there are, but it is not safe to do so. You can for example use a small 3V light bulb or something like that (a load that will provide slow discharge - use Ohms Law). Some cameras have an option of discharging (if i am not mistaken K100D does not have such option). Anyway - NiMH batteries do not "like" deep discharge (voltage shouldn't drop below ~0,85V) - and that is exactly what might happen if you do it on your own with light bulbs or what so ever. During discharging battery voltage must be monitored but simple light bulb can't do that.

And if you have a couple minutes you can read this small article. I know wiki is not the best source but I think this should do this time.

you need to be careful about charging batteries in series, i.e. more than one at a time. differences in voltage and discharge curves for each cell could result in forcing reverse voltage on one cell if you have 4 in series.

It is best to discharge and charge each separately (i.e. with a charger that can do multiple batteries, but does not require multiples of 2 at a time to charge

demoleman · 01-31-2008, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by menta

I'm not talking about shots.
I just charge the batteries, put them in the camera that shows it's full and I can take a picture.
I put the camera on the shelf, and after about 1-2 days after 1-2 shots it says the batteries are depleted.
I tried this with 3 sets of Batteries. 1 set it brand new.

Menta.

Hi,

I basically experience the same problem with 2 sets of new Varta batteries, capacity 2700mAh.
I am now testing with some others brands if the same happens again I have good experiences with GP 2500mAh and Trust 2500mAh. Also I think the battery gauge is sometimes acting quite strange, half full, full, 1/4 full, full again depending if the camera is switch on/off and after using flash.

jgredline · 01-31-2008, 05:59 PM

Hi Folks
Has anyone tried these?
Impact | CR-V3 3V Rechargeable Lithium-Ion Battery | CRV3 | B&H

I am really tempted to buy them for my K100D. Is there reason not to buy them?
Thanks

Stratman · 01-31-2008, 08:21 PM

Pentax warns NOT to use recheargeable CRV-3 batteries, they are reported to have inconsistent voltage < can be too high > and MAY fry your camera. Eneloops work great for me in my K110D, I would recommend anyone with a K100 or K110 to use them. They ARE more expensive, but well worth the few extra $ in the long run.

joelw135 · 02-01-2008, 05:24 AM

Originally posted by jgredline

Hi Folks
Has anyone tried these?
Impact | CR-V3 3V Rechargeable Lithium-Ion Battery | CRV3 | B&H

I am really tempted to buy them for my K100D. Is there reason not to buy them?
Thanks

Rechargable CRV-3 batteries don't maintain a constant voltage and you get an erratic operating camera and a chance of damaging it also. Use regular CRV-3 or a good low discharge battery like Eneloop, Kodak and Ansmann, the later two are 2100 mah. Also a good charger that charges each battery at its own rate is important

joelw135 · 02-01-2008, 06:28 AM

I have come to a conclusion that a cheap charger costs you money in battery life. I received my La Crosse charger and my new Ansmann 2100 mah low discharge batteries. I decided to run a discharge & charge cycle. All four batteries were placed in the charger at the same time and the LCD display showed that each battery had a different start Ma, Voltage, and mah. After discharging all night I awoke to find that the LCD display read the following:
Cell 1-2 hr 38 min
Cell 2-2 hr 27 min
Cell 3-2 hr 14 min
Cell 4-1 hr 54 min

This shows that the batteries were in a different state of charge and needed different amounts of time to discharge and recharge the batteries. I now feel that a good battery charger that discharges and conditions the batteries to be essential over a cheap charger.

P.S. I used the slowest discharge and recharge rate.

jgredline · 02-01-2008, 10:24 AM

Based on Lowells and others recommendations, last night I ordered a good battery charger and battery tester from B&H...They seem like really good deals to me. The nice thing about ordering out of state is that there is no 8.25% sales tax

Qty Price Total
Impact IMAA8BAYLCDK 8-Bay AA/AAA Battery Charger with LCD Display and Batteries
1 $89.95 $89.95

Impact IMBTUAA Universal Battery Tester EC741 for AA, AAA, 9V, CR-V3, 2CR5
1 $12.95 $12.95

Kenko KE1.5XPD 1.5x DG AF Tele-Converter for Pentax AF
1 $86.95 $86.95

Sub Total: $189.85
Shipping: $20.00
Sales Tax: $0.00

joelw135 · 02-01-2008, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by jgredline

Based on Lowells and others recommendations, last night I ordered a good battery charger and battery tester from B&H...They seem like really good deals to me. The nice thing about ordering out of state is that there is no 8.25% sales tax

Qty Price Total
Impact IMAA8BAYLCDK 8-Bay AA/AAA Battery Charger with LCD Display and Batteries
1 $89.95 $89.95

Impact IMBTUAA Universal Battery Tester EC741 for AA, AAA, 9V, CR-V3, 2CR5
1 $12.95 $12.95

Kenko KE1.5XPD 1.5x DG AF Tele-Converter for Pentax AF
1 $86.95 $86.95

Sub Total: $189.85
Shipping: $20.00
Sales Tax: $0.00

You didn't make a mistake getting a good charger, but I don't know anything about the one you bought. As long as you can discharge and condition the batteries you are fine. All you need now is patience as you should charge them at the slow rate unless you are in a rush.

jgredline · 02-01-2008, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by joelw135

You didn't make a mistake getting a good charger, but I don't know anything about the one you bought. As long as you can discharge and condition the batteries you are fine. All you need now is patience as you should charge them at the slow rate unless you are in a rush.

The set up I have right now is the 15 minute energizer charger and the real slow trickle charger.. Normally I use the trickle charger (24 hr charger) but that 15 minute charger is amazing. Problem with it though, is that I believe it kills batteries...The new charger I got coming charges batteries individually and has a meter to check their levels.

joelw135 · 02-01-2008, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by jgredline

The set up I have right now is the 15 minute energizer charger and the real slow trickle charger.. Normally I use the trickle charger (24 hr charger) but that 15 minute charger is amazing. Problem with it though, is that I believe it kills batteries...The new charger I got coming charges batteries individually and has a meter to check their levels.

Quick charging is great if you only use it when necessary, otherwise you are killing the batteries.

jgredline · 02-01-2008, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by joelw135

Quick charging is great if you only use it when necessary, otherwise you are killing the batteries.

agreed.
I have a total of 6 sets of rechargeables.
2 sets of duracel mah2650 ''great''
3 sets of energizer mah2500 two sets of which will only take a slow charge now and I have killed two other sets of energizers. But in fairness, those I killed I have charged atleast 50 times or so, so I can't complain.
1 set of rayovac hybrids mah2100.. So far these are great..over 600 photos from a fully charged set.

joelw135 · 02-01-2008, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by jgredline

agreed.
I have a total of 6 sets of rechargeables.
2 sets of duracel mah2650 ''great''
3 sets of energizer mah2500 two sets of which will only take a slow charge now and I have killed two other sets of energizers. But in fairness, those I killed I have charged atleast 50 times or so, so I can't complain.
1 set of rayovac hybrids mah2100.. So far these are great..over 600 photos from a fully charged set.

Well all I know is that if you slow charge a Hybrid you can get up to 1,000 charges. On the back of both my sets of batteries it tells you that it small type. Some Hybrids only get 500 charges. I compared each on Thomas Distributing site.

thingy · 02-01-2008, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by GFamily

I'm not an expert on these things, but I'm pretty certain it's not as simple as that. As well as producing a voltage across the calls, each type has a characteristic internal resistance; and I would be very worried that having mixed cell types could lead to overloading at least some of them.

I wouldn't be surprised if you found that some of the cells leaked when used as part of a mixed set.

And lithium cells may do far worse than leak!

Hello Gfamily, thank you for your input regarding my hybrid idea. While not convinced that there is a problem with internal resistance prudence, dictates that I at least check it out.
I think that if I construct a simple test rig that will allow me to apply a load of say 250 and 500 Millie amp to the combination I should get some indication of how they will react.

Thingy.

demoleman · 02-06-2008, 04:13 PM

I read the following here

"It's worth noting here that the Pentax K100D didn't like most sets of our NiMH batteries, frequently complaining that a somewhat used set of four wasn't sufficient to continue. Not so with alkalines. A relatively new set of Energizer NiMH batteries does work fairly well, however, so I recommend a nice fresh set of NiMH batteries (or two) for the Pentax K100D."

It would be nice from Imaging resource to mentioned what brands they did use

jgredline · 02-07-2008, 10:00 AM

Here is a question I was pondering this morning..
Has anyone tried mixing brands and battery capacity?
Example. 3 duracel MAH 2650 and 1 Energizer MAH 2500?
What would happen?

02-01-2008, 06:28 AM	#36
joelw135 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kendall Park, NJ Photos: Gallery Posts: 143	Good charger is needed! I have come to a conclusion that a cheap charger costs you money in battery life. I received my La Crosse charger and my new Ansmann 2100 mah low discharge batteries. I decided to run a discharge & charge cycle. All four batteries were placed in the charger at the same time and the LCD display showed that each battery had a different start Ma, Voltage, and mah. After discharging all night I awoke to find that the LCD display read the following: Cell 1-2 hr 38 min Cell 2-2 hr 27 min Cell 3-2 hr 14 min Cell 4-1 hr 54 min This shows that the batteries were in a different state of charge and needed different amounts of time to discharge and recharge the batteries. I now feel that a good battery charger that discharges and conditions the batteries to be essential over a cheap charger. P.S. I used the slowest discharge and recharge rate.

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01-31-2008, 10:58 AM	#31
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by madphys Yes there are, but it is not safe to do so. You can for example use a small 3V light bulb or something like that (a load that will provide slow discharge - use Ohms Law). Some cameras have an option of discharging (if i am not mistaken K100D does not have such option). Anyway - NiMH batteries do not "like" deep discharge (voltage shouldn't drop below ~0,85V) - and that is exactly what might happen if you do it on your own with light bulbs or what so ever. During discharging battery voltage must be monitored but simple light bulb can't do that. And if you have a couple minutes you can read this small article. I know wiki is not the best source but I think this should do this time. you need to be careful about charging batteries in series, i.e. more than one at a time. differences in voltage and discharge curves for each cell could result in forcing reverse voltage on one cell if you have 4 in series. It is best to discharge and charge each separately (i.e. with a charger that can do multiple batteries, but does not require multiples of 2 at a time to charge

01-31-2008, 04:27 PM	#32
demoleman Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 38	Originally posted by menta I'm not talking about shots. I just charge the batteries, put them in the camera that shows it's full and I can take a picture. I put the camera on the shelf, and after about 1-2 days after 1-2 shots it says the batteries are depleted. I tried this with 3 sets of Batteries. 1 set it brand new. Menta. Hi, I basically experience the same problem with 2 sets of new Varta batteries, capacity 2700mAh. I am now testing with some others brands if the same happens again I have good experiences with GP 2500mAh and Trust 2500mAh. Also I think the battery gauge is sometimes acting quite strange, half full, full, 1/4 full, full again depending if the camera is switch on/off and after using flash.

01-31-2008, 05:59 PM	#33
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Hi Folks Has anyone tried these? Impact \| CR-V3 3V Rechargeable Lithium-Ion Battery \| CRV3 \| B&H I am really tempted to buy them for my K100D. Is there reason not to buy them? Thanks

01-31-2008, 08:21 PM	#34
Stratman Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: St Louis, Missouri U S A Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,464	Pentax warns NOT to use recheargeable CRV-3 batteries, they are reported to have inconsistent voltage < can be too high > and MAY fry your camera. Eneloops work great for me in my K110D, I would recommend anyone with a K100 or K110 to use them. They ARE more expensive, but well worth the few extra $ in the long run.

02-01-2008, 05:24 AM	#35
joelw135 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kendall Park, NJ Photos: Gallery Posts: 143	Originally posted by jgredline Hi Folks Has anyone tried these? Impact \| CR-V3 3V Rechargeable Lithium-Ion Battery \| CRV3 \| B&H I am really tempted to buy them for my K100D. Is there reason not to buy them? Thanks Rechargable CRV-3 batteries don't maintain a constant voltage and you get an erratic operating camera and a chance of damaging it also. Use regular CRV-3 or a good low discharge battery like Eneloop, Kodak and Ansmann, the later two are 2100 mah. Also a good charger that charges each battery at its own rate is important

02-01-2008, 10:24 AM	#37
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Based on Lowells and others recommendations, last night I ordered a good battery charger and battery tester from B&H...They seem like really good deals to me. The nice thing about ordering out of state is that there is no 8.25% sales tax Qty Price Total Impact IMAA8BAYLCDK 8-Bay AA/AAA Battery Charger with LCD Display and Batteries 1 $89.95 $89.95 Impact IMBTUAA Universal Battery Tester EC741 for AA, AAA, 9V, CR-V3, 2CR5 1 $12.95 $12.95 Kenko KE1.5XPD 1.5x DG AF Tele-Converter for Pentax AF 1 $86.95 $86.95 Sub Total: $189.85 Shipping: $20.00 Sales Tax: $0.00

02-01-2008, 10:39 AM	#38
joelw135 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kendall Park, NJ Photos: Gallery Posts: 143	Originally posted by jgredline Based on Lowells and others recommendations, last night I ordered a good battery charger and battery tester from B&H...They seem like really good deals to me. The nice thing about ordering out of state is that there is no 8.25% sales tax Qty Price Total Impact IMAA8BAYLCDK 8-Bay AA/AAA Battery Charger with LCD Display and Batteries 1 $89.95 $89.95 Impact IMBTUAA Universal Battery Tester EC741 for AA, AAA, 9V, CR-V3, 2CR5 1 $12.95 $12.95 Kenko KE1.5XPD 1.5x DG AF Tele-Converter for Pentax AF 1 $86.95 $86.95 Sub Total: $189.85 Shipping: $20.00 Sales Tax: $0.00 You didn't make a mistake getting a good charger, but I don't know anything about the one you bought. As long as you can discharge and condition the batteries you are fine. All you need now is patience as you should charge them at the slow rate unless you are in a rush.

02-01-2008, 10:46 AM	#39
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Originally posted by joelw135 You didn't make a mistake getting a good charger, but I don't know anything about the one you bought. As long as you can discharge and condition the batteries you are fine. All you need now is patience as you should charge them at the slow rate unless you are in a rush. The set up I have right now is the 15 minute energizer charger and the real slow trickle charger.. Normally I use the trickle charger (24 hr charger) but that 15 minute charger is amazing. Problem with it though, is that I believe it kills batteries...The new charger I got coming charges batteries individually and has a meter to check their levels.

02-01-2008, 11:02 AM	#40
joelw135 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kendall Park, NJ Photos: Gallery Posts: 143	Originally posted by jgredline The set up I have right now is the 15 minute energizer charger and the real slow trickle charger.. Normally I use the trickle charger (24 hr charger) but that 15 minute charger is amazing. Problem with it though, is that I believe it kills batteries...The new charger I got coming charges batteries individually and has a meter to check their levels. Quick charging is great if you only use it when necessary, otherwise you are killing the batteries.

02-01-2008, 11:13 AM	#41
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Originally posted by joelw135 Quick charging is great if you only use it when necessary, otherwise you are killing the batteries. agreed. I have a total of 6 sets of rechargeables. 2 sets of duracel mah2650 ''great'' 3 sets of energizer mah2500 two sets of which will only take a slow charge now and I have killed two other sets of energizers. But in fairness, those I killed I have charged atleast 50 times or so, so I can't complain. 1 set of rayovac hybrids mah2100.. So far these are great..over 600 photos from a fully charged set.

02-01-2008, 11:18 AM	#42
joelw135 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kendall Park, NJ Photos: Gallery Posts: 143	Originally posted by jgredline agreed. I have a total of 6 sets of rechargeables. 2 sets of duracel mah2650 ''great'' 3 sets of energizer mah2500 two sets of which will only take a slow charge now and I have killed two other sets of energizers. But in fairness, those I killed I have charged atleast 50 times or so, so I can't complain. 1 set of rayovac hybrids mah2100.. So far these are great..over 600 photos from a fully charged set. Well all I know is that if you slow charge a Hybrid you can get up to 1,000 charges. On the back of both my sets of batteries it tells you that it small type. Some Hybrids only get 500 charges. I compared each on Thomas Distributing site.

02-01-2008, 10:38 PM	#43
thingy New Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto.CA Posts: 14	Originally posted by GFamily I'm not an expert on these things, but I'm pretty certain it's not as simple as that. As well as producing a voltage across the calls, each type has a characteristic internal resistance; and I would be very worried that having mixed cell types could lead to overloading at least some of them. I wouldn't be surprised if you found that some of the cells leaked when used as part of a mixed set. And lithium cells may do far worse than leak! Hello Gfamily, thank you for your input regarding my hybrid idea. While not convinced that there is a problem with internal resistance prudence, dictates that I at least check it out. I think that if I construct a simple test rig that will allow me to apply a load of say 250 and 500 Millie amp to the combination I should get some indication of how they will react. Thingy.

02-06-2008, 04:13 PM	#44
demoleman Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 38	I read the following here "It's worth noting here that the Pentax K100D didn't like most sets of our NiMH batteries, frequently complaining that a somewhat used set of four wasn't sufficient to continue. Not so with alkalines. A relatively new set of Energizer NiMH batteries does work fairly well, however, so I recommend a nice fresh set of NiMH batteries (or two) for the Pentax K100D." It would be nice from Imaging resource to mentioned what brands they did use

02-07-2008, 10:00 AM	#45
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Here is a question I was pondering this morning.. Has anyone tried mixing brands and battery capacity? Example. 3 duracel MAH 2650 and 1 Energizer MAH 2500? What would happen?