Do you prefer AA or Lithium Ion?

Cannikin · 07-18-2012, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

I read recently that the shelf life of Lithium AA's is 7 or 8 years.

Actually disposable lithium AAs have a shelf life on the order of 14-15 years (going by the expiration dates and Energizer's specifications), so quite a bit longer than you've read. It's alkalines that have a shelf life of about 7 years.

audiobomber · 07-18-2012, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by Cannikin

Actually disposable lithium AAs have a shelf life on the order of 14-15 years (going by the expiration dates and Energizer's specifications), so quite a bit longer than you've read. It's alkalines that have a shelf life of about 7 years.

Wait, is that a marketing or engineering estimate?

Cannikin · 07-18-2012, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

Wait, is that a marketing or engineering estimate?

Energizer's technical specifications say 15 years: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
The actual expiration dates stamped on the lithium AAs in stores right now say 2026 (14 years).

ihasa · 07-18-2012, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by i_trax

so you obviously do not take photos in remote places while travelling....

Are you any more likely to find useable batteries (lithium?) while in remote places? Alkalines get you out of a hole occasionally, but aren't really very satisfactory (or at least, I found). Whereas you can invest in an absolute stack of non-OEM batteries for very little money, and take them anywhere.

Originally posted by Zafar Iqbal

Another way to look at it (I only have experience from K-r): The Lion is rated to some 440 shots while my Sanyo XX batteries gives me twice as many exposures.

The unfortunate thing is that the Li-ion used in the Kr was lower capacity, presumably partly becuase it's more an entry level camera, but also to get it to work in the AA battery compartment. Good to hear that people are getting good life from their eneloops, reassuring, despite the annoyance of having AA's rolling around in the camera bag, and having them drop on the floor while attempting to change batteries one handed.... I think the battery management issues I used to get on my K200d (with recycko batteries) sound like they have probably been overcome. (Camera would turn off sporadically, showing the low battery indicator, but then come back to life again after a while showing full charge!)

Docrwm · 07-18-2012, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by ihasa

Are you any more likely to find useable batteries (lithium?) while in remote places? Alkalines get you out of a hole occasionally, but aren't really very satisfactory (or at least, I found). Whereas you can invest in an absolute stack of non-OEM batteries for very little money, and take them anywhere.

The unfortunate thing is that the Li-ion used in the Kr was lower capacity, presumably partly becuase it's more an entry level camera, but also to get it to work in the AA battery compartment. Good to hear that people are getting good life from their eneloops, reassuring, despite the annoyance of having AA's rolling around in the camera bag, and having them drop on the floor while attempting to change batteries one handed.... I think the battery management issues I used to get on my K200d (with recycko batteries) sound like they have probably been overcome. (Camera would turn off sporadically, showing the low battery indicator, but then come back to life again after a while showing full charge!)

To your first question: yes I have found them in some off the beaten track places.

To the second, $2 at DealExtreme:

madbrain · 07-18-2012, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by Clavius

I haven't got the foggiest idea as to why some people prefer AA's. Shop bought AA's got me around 15 shots. Eneloops about 60.

That's insanity. With the K200D I could get 300 shots with disposable alkaline AA (Duracell brand) About 1000 with the eneloops. With the K200D+grip and 8 eneloops, about 2000.

With the K-30, it's less - it takes only 4 AAs and no grip - but it's much harder to compare because I also shoot video with it now.

IMO there was something wrong with both your sets of AA batteries if you only got that few shots.
Maybe your disposable AAs were expired ?
As for the eneloops, it's best to use a charger with individual charging circuits, like with all rechargeable batteries. The sanyo chargers charge them in pairs which is no good.
Here is a link to a very cheap and portable 4-circuit charger.

Amazon.com: iGogreen Green Energy Battery Charger Rechargeable Alkaline Batteries: Electronics

**ramseybuckeye** · 07-18-2012, 05:32 PM

I much prefer Li-ion batteries, they last and last, and the easier handling is a plus. To me they are more economical and practical. I have 3 (two non oem) with my K20D, although I've never had to use more than two on an outing and that's usually when starting off without a full charge. The only time I ever got into trouble with a battery was a trip to the woods with no spare, not realizing the battery was nearly drained (meaning I forgot to look at it before leaving), even if it took AAs that would not have helped, closer to go home than anywhere a battery would be sold. The longest trip with the camera was Yellowstone, I had one spare Li-ion with me each day. I don't think I ever changed it until charging it each night, and they weren't depleted, I just wanted to start the day with two fully charged.

However I have ordered a K-30 and an extra non oem Li-ion. I will also get one of the battery holders at sometime because it is a great option to run into a store and buy batteries. I have some Ultralast Ni-MH rechargeables left over from my pre K20D days and a Minolta superzoom. If they still hold a decent charge they could be backups too. I can't see buying rechargeables unless it's a great deal since I don't have to use them.

audiobomber · 07-18-2012, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by ihasa

Are you any more likely to find useable batteries (lithium?) while in remote places? Alkalines get you out of a hole occasionally, but aren't really very satisfactory (or at least, I found). Whereas you can invest in an absolute stack of non-OEM batteries for very little money, and take them anywhere.

But if you don't have a charged Li-ion battery with you for whatever reason, you're shut down.

I don't think you could find a corner store in Canada that doesn't sell Lithiums.

Clavius · 07-19-2012, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by madbrain

That's insanity. With the K200D I could get 300 shots with disposable alkaline AA (Duracell brand) About 1000 with the eneloops. With the K200D+grip and 8 eneloops, about 2000.

With the K-30, it's less - it takes only 4 AAs and no grip - but it's much harder to compare because I also shoot video with it now.

IMO there was something wrong with both your sets of AA batteries if you only got that few shots.
Maybe your disposable AAs were expired ?
As for the eneloops, it's best to use a charger with individual charging circuits, like with all rechargeable batteries. The sanyo chargers charge them in pairs which is no good.
Here is a link to a very cheap and portable 4-circuit charger.

Amazon.com: iGogreen Green Energy Battery Charger Rechargeable Alkaline Batteries: Electronics

Thanks for your efforts, but I threw the batteries and the chargers away "ages" ago.

And as I easily get an average of 800 shots from a single charge with a Chinese 'fake' $10,- DLI90, I really don't miss AA's. Especially not if I read this thread and see that people with expensive eneloops get far less shots.

But my preference is not all just about numbers. I also prefer the look and feel of the DLI90 and sorts. It feels much more solid and robust. A real part of the camera. It's much less fiddly then placing 4 AA's with all the little springs and the possible leaking. Lithium accumulators can't leak, you know... They just explode.

(Although, I've never seen anybody reporting a exploding DLI90.)

ihasa · 07-19-2012, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

But if you don't have a charged Li-ion battery with you for whatever reason, you're shut down.

I don't think you could find a corner store in Canada that doesn't sell Lithiums.

Not here, I've only seen them in very large supermarkets, occasionally in Boots Chemists.

madbrain · 07-20-2012, 06:52 PM

Let's see, 20 votes for AA only, 20 for both, 19 votes for lithium ion only.
The AAs win

I guess Pentax had the right idea with the AA adapter in the K-r/K-30, except for the fact it's not included in the retail box.

**PPPPPP42** · 07-20-2012, 07:12 PM

The original factory Pentax battery in my K20D still works perfectly, I use it every day and normally charge it about once a week which takes a tiny amount of time to do, I've never had a situation where I had to charge it after just one days use no matter how hard I try and I can shoot a whole day when it reads half so there's no surprises. If I was taking a really major photo trip to BFE I might buy a spare and pick up a cord for the charger to match whatever country I'm in.

I guess for you people who live in outer mongolia or on assignment in Liberia for a month a battery grip with AA's might be nifty but for the rest of us its (rather literally) a big joke.

audiobomber · 07-20-2012, 07:17 PM

My original K20D battery is extremely reliable and long-lived. The four third-party batteries I've bought, not so reliable. I like to start out with a knock-off in the camera and the Pentax battery in the bag.

madbrain · 07-20-2012, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by PPPPPP42

I guess for you people who live in outer mongolia or on assignment in Liberia for a month a battery grip with AA's might be nifty but for the rest of us its (rather literally) a big joke.

I would say you have been very lucky with your Lion though. You must be shooting and recharging very frequently.

The problem with Lion batteries are well known and documented.

Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If every device I own took Lion batteries, I would be going crazy trying to keep each battery from ever going to 100% discharge state. I own so many electronics that it's impossible to prevent that from happening. Sometimes I don't use my camcorder for a few months. Last september I bought a spare battery. I charged it. It sat in the camcorder. By march of this year it was completely dead and won't recharge.
And the more Lion batteries you have, the more you have to worry about keeping them from discharging all the way.

My cell phone is on its 3rd Lion battery in 18 months as of last week.
The symptoms were very strange : every app on android was crashing. The phone reset its entire content as well. I replaced the battery and now all is fine. I guess the battery was giving the wrong voltage and caused the phone to malfunction.

And I recharge my phone every night. The battery does frequently go to 100%, though. Can't keep that from happening when you use a smartphone a lot...

Since your camera is unable to take any type of AA even with a grip, you would never know how many more shots you would be able to get with a set of eneloops vs the one LiOn battery.

tim60 · 07-21-2012, 01:51 AM

I absolutely prefer AAs. I use NiMH most of the time and Alkaline occassionally when something goes wrong. The advantage is that I can buy from anywhere, which is critically important if either I forget soemthing, like to recharge or they discharge before use (I waited a long time since last charge) or the airline lost my baggage with spare sets and charger on the way. (There is only so much one can carry in handbaggage - laptop and accessories, camera and lenses - so the batteries are relegated to the check-in. (In Australia some airports actually weigh hand bagge and absolutely forbid more than 10kg.)

View Poll Results: AA, Lion or Both?
AA's all the way!	40	34.48%
Like to have the choice of using either.	39	33.62%
Using AAs is of no interest to me.	37	31.90%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

07-18-2012, 03:57 PM	#35
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by ihasa Are you any more likely to find useable batteries (lithium?) while in remote places? Alkalines get you out of a hole occasionally, but aren't really very satisfactory (or at least, I found). Whereas you can invest in an absolute stack of non-OEM batteries for very little money, and take them anywhere. The unfortunate thing is that the Li-ion used in the Kr was lower capacity, presumably partly becuase it's more an entry level camera, but also to get it to work in the AA battery compartment. Good to hear that people are getting good life from their eneloops, reassuring, despite the annoyance of having AA's rolling around in the camera bag, and having them drop on the floor while attempting to change batteries one handed.... I think the battery management issues I used to get on my K200d (with recycko batteries) sound like they have probably been overcome. (Camera would turn off sporadically, showing the low battery indicator, but then come back to life again after a while showing full charge!) To your first question: yes I have found them in some off the beaten track places. To the second, $2 at DealExtreme: Last edited by Docrwm; 05-06-2013 at 08:12 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Lithium-Ion battery Vs AA Ni-MH on a Kr	ide508	Pentax K-r	18	01-06-2011 04:00 PM
D-BG4 lithium-ion vs nimh/aa's	dtra	Pentax Camera and Field Accessories	5	10-29-2010 09:17 PM
Lithium Ion Batteries and Air Travel	mithrandir	General Talk	4	08-26-2010 04:16 AM
Lithium-Ion Battery Question	8540tomg	Pentax Camera and Field Accessories	2	08-18-2008 09:06 PM
Lithium ION battery for k100d	dmadden	Pentax Camera and Field Accessories	2	11-05-2007 08:00 AM

07-18-2012, 02:46 PM	#31
Cannikin Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: SW Washington Posts: 833	Originally posted by audiobomber I read recently that the shelf life of Lithium AA's is 7 or 8 years. Actually disposable lithium AAs have a shelf life on the order of 14-15 years (going by the expiration dates and Energizer's specifications), so quite a bit longer than you've read. It's alkalines that have a shelf life of about 7 years.

07-18-2012, 03:06 PM	#32
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by Cannikin Actually disposable lithium AAs have a shelf life on the order of 14-15 years (going by the expiration dates and Energizer's specifications), so quite a bit longer than you've read. It's alkalines that have a shelf life of about 7 years. Wait, is that a marketing or engineering estimate?

07-18-2012, 03:21 PM	#33
Cannikin Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: SW Washington Posts: 833	Originally posted by audiobomber Wait, is that a marketing or engineering estimate? Energizer's technical specifications say 15 years: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf The actual expiration dates stamped on the lithium AAs in stores right now say 2026 (14 years).

07-18-2012, 03:22 PM	#34
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066 Original Poster	Originally posted by i_trax so you obviously do not take photos in remote places while travelling.... Are you any more likely to find useable batteries (lithium?) while in remote places? Alkalines get you out of a hole occasionally, but aren't really very satisfactory (or at least, I found). Whereas you can invest in an absolute stack of non-OEM batteries for very little money, and take them anywhere. Originally posted by Zafar Iqbal Another way to look at it (I only have experience from K-r): The Lion is rated to some 440 shots while my Sanyo XX batteries gives me twice as many exposures. The unfortunate thing is that the Li-ion used in the Kr was lower capacity, presumably partly becuase it's more an entry level camera, but also to get it to work in the AA battery compartment. Good to hear that people are getting good life from their eneloops, reassuring, despite the annoyance of having AA's rolling around in the camera bag, and having them drop on the floor while attempting to change batteries one handed.... I think the battery management issues I used to get on my K200d (with recycko batteries) sound like they have probably been overcome. (Camera would turn off sporadically, showing the low battery indicator, but then come back to life again after a while showing full charge!)

07-18-2012, 04:40 PM	#36
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341	Originally posted by Clavius I haven't got the foggiest idea as to why some people prefer AA's. Shop bought AA's got me around 15 shots. Eneloops about 60. That's insanity. With the K200D I could get 300 shots with disposable alkaline AA (Duracell brand) About 1000 with the eneloops. With the K200D+grip and 8 eneloops, about 2000. With the K-30, it's less - it takes only 4 AAs and no grip - but it's much harder to compare because I also shoot video with it now. IMO there was something wrong with both your sets of AA batteries if you only got that few shots. Maybe your disposable AAs were expired ? As for the eneloops, it's best to use a charger with individual charging circuits, like with all rechargeable batteries. The sanyo chargers charge them in pairs which is no good. Here is a link to a very cheap and portable 4-circuit charger. Amazon.com: iGogreen Green Energy Battery Charger Rechargeable Alkaline Batteries: Electronics

07-18-2012, 05:32 PM	#37
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,291	I much prefer Li-ion batteries, they last and last, and the easier handling is a plus. To me they are more economical and practical. I have 3 (two non oem) with my K20D, although I've never had to use more than two on an outing and that's usually when starting off without a full charge. The only time I ever got into trouble with a battery was a trip to the woods with no spare, not realizing the battery was nearly drained (meaning I forgot to look at it before leaving), even if it took AAs that would not have helped, closer to go home than anywhere a battery would be sold. The longest trip with the camera was Yellowstone, I had one spare Li-ion with me each day. I don't think I ever changed it until charging it each night, and they weren't depleted, I just wanted to start the day with two fully charged. However I have ordered a K-30 and an extra non oem Li-ion. I will also get one of the battery holders at sometime because it is a great option to run into a store and buy batteries. I have some Ultralast Ni-MH rechargeables left over from my pre K20D days and a Minolta superzoom. If they still hold a decent charge they could be backups too. I can't see buying rechargeables unless it's a great deal since I don't have to use them.

07-18-2012, 05:51 PM	#38
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by ihasa Are you any more likely to find useable batteries (lithium?) while in remote places? Alkalines get you out of a hole occasionally, but aren't really very satisfactory (or at least, I found). Whereas you can invest in an absolute stack of non-OEM batteries for very little money, and take them anywhere. But if you don't have a charged Li-ion battery with you for whatever reason, you're shut down. I don't think you could find a corner store in Canada that doesn't sell Lithiums.

07-19-2012, 12:11 AM	#39
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by madbrain That's insanity. With the K200D I could get 300 shots with disposable alkaline AA (Duracell brand) About 1000 with the eneloops. With the K200D+grip and 8 eneloops, about 2000. With the K-30, it's less - it takes only 4 AAs and no grip - but it's much harder to compare because I also shoot video with it now. IMO there was something wrong with both your sets of AA batteries if you only got that few shots. Maybe your disposable AAs were expired ? As for the eneloops, it's best to use a charger with individual charging circuits, like with all rechargeable batteries. The sanyo chargers charge them in pairs which is no good. Here is a link to a very cheap and portable 4-circuit charger. Amazon.com: iGogreen Green Energy Battery Charger Rechargeable Alkaline Batteries: Electronics Thanks for your efforts, but I threw the batteries and the chargers away "ages" ago. And as I easily get an average of 800 shots from a single charge with a Chinese 'fake' $10,- DLI90, I really don't miss AA's. Especially not if I read this thread and see that people with expensive eneloops get far less shots. But my preference is not all just about numbers. I also prefer the look and feel of the DLI90 and sorts. It feels much more solid and robust. A real part of the camera. It's much less fiddly then placing 4 AA's with all the little springs and the possible leaking. Lithium accumulators can't leak, you know... They just explode. (Although, I've never seen anybody reporting a exploding DLI90.)

07-19-2012, 12:19 AM	#40
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066 Original Poster	Originally posted by audiobomber But if you don't have a charged Li-ion battery with you for whatever reason, you're shut down. I don't think you could find a corner store in Canada that doesn't sell Lithiums. Not here, I've only seen them in very large supermarkets, occasionally in Boots Chemists.

07-20-2012, 06:52 PM	#41
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341	Let's see, 20 votes for AA only, 20 for both, 19 votes for lithium ion only. The AAs win I guess Pentax had the right idea with the AA adapter in the K-r/K-30, except for the fact it's not included in the retail box.

07-20-2012, 07:12 PM	#42
PPPPPP42 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Albums Posts: 947	The original factory Pentax battery in my K20D still works perfectly, I use it every day and normally charge it about once a week which takes a tiny amount of time to do, I've never had a situation where I had to charge it after just one days use no matter how hard I try and I can shoot a whole day when it reads half so there's no surprises. If I was taking a really major photo trip to BFE I might buy a spare and pick up a cord for the charger to match whatever country I'm in. I guess for you people who live in outer mongolia or on assignment in Liberia for a month a battery grip with AA's might be nifty but for the rest of us its (rather literally) a big joke.

07-20-2012, 07:17 PM	#43
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	My original K20D battery is extremely reliable and long-lived. The four third-party batteries I've bought, not so reliable. I like to start out with a knock-off in the camera and the Pentax battery in the bag.

07-20-2012, 07:34 PM	#44
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341	Originally posted by PPPPPP42 I guess for you people who live in outer mongolia or on assignment in Liberia for a month a battery grip with AA's might be nifty but for the rest of us its (rather literally) a big joke. I would say you have been very lucky with your Lion though. You must be shooting and recharging very frequently. The problem with Lion batteries are well known and documented. Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia If every device I own took Lion batteries, I would be going crazy trying to keep each battery from ever going to 100% discharge state. I own so many electronics that it's impossible to prevent that from happening. Sometimes I don't use my camcorder for a few months. Last september I bought a spare battery. I charged it. It sat in the camcorder. By march of this year it was completely dead and won't recharge. And the more Lion batteries you have, the more you have to worry about keeping them from discharging all the way. My cell phone is on its 3rd Lion battery in 18 months as of last week. The symptoms were very strange : every app on android was crashing. The phone reset its entire content as well. I replaced the battery and now all is fine. I guess the battery was giving the wrong voltage and caused the phone to malfunction. And I recharge my phone every night. The battery does frequently go to 100%, though. Can't keep that from happening when you use a smartphone a lot... Since your camera is unable to take any type of AA even with a grip, you would never know how many more shots you would be able to get with a set of eneloops vs the one LiOn battery.

07-21-2012, 01:51 AM	#45
tim60 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 8,743	I absolutely prefer AAs. I use NiMH most of the time and Alkaline occassionally when something goes wrong. The advantage is that I can buy from anywhere, which is critically important if either I forget soemthing, like to recharge or they discharge before use (I waited a long time since last charge) or the airline lost my baggage with spare sets and charger on the way. (There is only so much one can carry in handbaggage - laptop and accessories, camera and lenses - so the batteries are relegated to the check-in. (In Australia some airports actually weigh hand bagge and absolutely forbid more than 10kg.)