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View Poll Results: What would you do?
Not interested in Full Frame 11752.94%
Wait it out. 8237.10%
Leave for Canon 31.36%
Leave for Nikon 188.14%
Leave for Sony 10.45%
Voters: 221. You may not vote on this poll

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07-26-2012, 09:04 AM   #61
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I'd love a FF camera, but until they cost €700, it's not going to happen. I have my K200D, which is fantastic, I'm having a great time getting into 35mm film and if I buy a new sort of camera any time soon it will be a medium format film camera.

Pentax should stay out of FF and concentrate on making the best APS-C SLRs possible, something they're doing very well at the moment.

07-26-2012, 09:06 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
I
Pentax should stay out of FF and concentrate on making the best APS-C SLRs possible, something they're doing very well at the moment.
I wish that could happen too, but the future would destroy them not to. FF is going to go down in price in the next couple years and when it hits 1600 USD price point at 2016, and by then if they have no FF out yet, there's going to be a problem.
07-26-2012, 10:21 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeDave Quote
The DA* 50-135 and 70-200 f4 non IS is very identical in weight and size.
Yeah, i think when I did this analysis for Canon APS-C vs. Canon FF a few months ago the FF lens came out lighter, smaller, and cheaper.
07-26-2012, 11:25 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
Consider: You are shooting birds with the D800 and a 500mm. For those closer shots a flick of the switch gives you FF (with the Sigma 500mm that's ca. 335mm equiv on APS-C), a bird appears in the middle distance and a flick of a switch later and you are at x1.2 crop (24mp and ca. 400m APS-C / 600mm 35mm equiv. ) and then you spot a small bird 40 yds away and another flick the switch and you are now at x1.5 (APS-C) for your 750mm (35mm equiv. ) with the famous latest and greatest version of Nikon's AF (which you seem to have disregarded even though I made it a feature of my previous post).
but that's why I shoot with 2 bodies when I am out seriously briding, I will have perhaps my 200-500/5.6 on the tripod, and my 70-200/2.8 with a 1.4x TC hand held for a quick shot when I want different focal length or somethign is moving about that you can't track with a monster
QuoteQuote:
Of course people also use the Sigma 500/4.5 on K5s (to great effect indeed) however the D800 gives far greater flexibility, better FF files and IQ and it loses nothing over the K5 in mm or mp in crop mode whilst still retaining all the advanced features and benefits of the D800 and Nikon's AF and a larger, brighter 100% VF that will make it even easier to obtain critical focus when in MF.
i agree with the brighter bigger finder
QuoteQuote:
I have recently spent quite a bit of time on bird shoots with Canon/Nikon shooters with FF cameras and 500/600/800 lenses. Let me say that those FF cameras with those lenses absolutely rock ! We all chimp our shots but they can get far more into the shot than I can and the IQ is two steps up with lower noise (I'm using the K5+DA*300+AFAx1.7). That said the Sigma 500mm has an advantage for me here - as I like to wander and not always be rooted to the spot, with the much lighter Sigma you can do that, with those CaNikon monster lenses it's not feasible !
but the da300/4 with a 1.7x while a nice lens TC pair is not in the same league as a 500/4 or what ever bigger lens the canikons are shooting. so the comparison is not strictly fair even at the onset.
QuoteQuote:
I spend a lot of time on FM now (pop over and have a look at their wildlife forum) - not wonderful but superb bird shots, the like of which I haven't seen from any APS-C camera (Pentax, Nikon or Canon) on any other forum and the vast majority from FF cameras and long lenses, they blow me away.

So my decision wasn't based on a whim. As you said an image that fills the frame and the amazing files that come out of it can be printed at twice the size (which means added cropping potential).
no it does not, given the same pixel pitch of sensor, all it means is that you have the same crop potential as the K5, and would crop less if you can get close, but I doubt that you can change shooting distances to take advantage of that feature. If you consider the image size vs distance trade off, can you really get 50% closer with a full frame body to fill the sensor? Many birds I shoot, to do that would require for example a reduction of the minimum focusing distance, and that does not change much just because you have a bigger sensor, so you are left to crop in any way.
QuoteQuote:
I have researched it, checked the results on the web and in person, Googled all of the FF vs APS-C arguments for birding, and have found that no matter how much I would like to deny it, there is an advantage, that I will have to pay for in $$$, but it is definitely there. If there wasn't then all those shooters would be using 7Ds or D300s'.
i am not so sure,. i have been on shoots with similar people, who look at the results from (for example) my K300/4 and 1.7x AF converter, then look at their kit, where it takes a baby stroller or shopping cart to move it, and they ask, who made that camera and lens. how long is it, etc...... then they look at the results, of shots that I can take because I CAN actually lift it, and think again because I can get shots they can't
QuoteQuote:
And finally when I'm not shooting birds I've now got a superb FF camera for those low DoF and low light shots that I love, with that distinct FF 'look'. The D800 is an all-in-one-camera that the 5DIII can't match.
i cant comment here, if you want dual systems , i can't argue, but I still think you may be looking at it in the wrong light. we'll see at the end how it turns out. for me, I'll wait for the 560 for now. it does have my attention, and will probably be the last (i can;t imagine saying that) long lens I get. (having already a K300/4 with 1.7x, a sigma 70-200/2.8 with 1.4x and 2x TCs and a tamron 200-500/5,6)

07-26-2012, 11:48 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
but that's why I shoot with 2 bodies when I am out seriously briding, I will have perhaps my 200-500/5.6 on the tripod, and my 70-200/2.8 with a 1.4x TC hand held for a quick shot when I want different focal length or somethign is moving about that you can't track with a monster
I also have two bodies when I'm birding seriously, however that's partly the point though. With the D800 I can have all of that within one camera and get what I want with, literally, the flick of a switch without moving my eye from the VF - and still have Nikon's superb AF and VF - and so have more chance of capturing the shot. Then the K5 & DA*300 (or I'd like a 70-200 to put on it) can stay in the bag as back-up.

QuoteQuote:
but the da300/4 with a 1.7x while a nice lens TC pair is not in the same league as a 500/4 or what ever bigger lens the canikons are shooting. so the comparison is not strictly fair even at the onset.
Exactly. There really isn't an option within Pentax (the Sigma 500 or Moneybags F or FAs aside) and I'm no longer prepared to wait for this fabled 560mm that came to light last year and we've not heard a peep of since (bar rumours - which say it's going to be a telescope style f5.6 lens anyway).

QuoteQuote:
no it does not, given the same pixel pitch of sensor, all it means is that you have the same crop potential as the K5, and would crop less if you can get close, but I doubt that you can change shooting distances to take advantage of that feature. If you consider the image size vs distance trade off, can you really get 50% closer with a full frame body to fill the sensor? Many birds I shoot, to do that would require for example a reduction of the minimum focusing distance, and that does not change much just because you have a bigger sensor, so you are left to crop in any way.
I no longer subscribe to the 'number of pixels on bird' theory though, more the quality of those pixels. I've seen what comes out of these FF birding cameras, and the ability to crop right in, and it's just beautiful. Again I encourage you to go through a couple of pages of the FM nature forum, eye-opening.

QuoteQuote:
i am not so sure,. i have been on shoots with similar people, who look at the results from (for example) my K300/4 and 1.7x AF converter, then look at their kit, where it takes a baby stroller or shopping cart to move it, and they ask, who made that camera and lens. how long is it, etc...... then they look at the results, of shots that I can take because I CAN actually lift it, and think again because I can get shots they can't
Oh I quite agree - which is one of the reasons I mentioned a D800 with the Sigma 500mm, because it is hand holdable (though I always have my cameras on a monopod when I'm birding anyway - I get the shakes if I'm holding the lens for a minute waiting for the bird to pop it's head out) ! You most certainly couldn't do that with a Canon/Nikon 500m or plus lens !
07-26-2012, 11:53 AM   #66
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its not only about FF but also about respectably good AF even if not as good as competitors. if not, I will get another brand FF but will keep my existing Pentax lenses and bodies as backup.
07-26-2012, 12:09 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by yusuf Quote
its not only about FF but also about respectably good AF even if not as good as competitors. if not, I will get another brand FF but will keep my existing Pentax lenses and bodies as backup.
I hear a lot about AF performance deficiencies but to be honest, AF is the least of my worries. I do look forward to Frogfish's adventure into nikon land and it will be interesting to see if the grass is really greener ont he other side of the fence, once he goes there.
07-26-2012, 01:07 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
For what purpose do you desire a fast, fixed aperture zoom?
Our definitions of "fast" may vary, but I would be looking to shoot the same things as I currently do with my K-5. Of course, strict equivalence between any given lenses on an APS-C sensor and on their counterparts on a 35mm sensor would mean being able to accept smaller maximum apertures on the 35mm camera and therefore cheaper lenses. In that case, though, why bother changing formats? What I'm principally looking for is a brighter big viewfinder, as I've said.

07-26-2012, 07:57 PM   #69
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What I really wanted was a FF camera as compact (and elegant) as the old 35mm ones. Pentax always says that if they ever make a FF, it would have to be different. Well, here's your opportunity.

More realistically, I would take a FF K-mount GXR instead.
07-26-2012, 08:04 PM   #70
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Nothing....I already shoot with Canon FF, but have the K-5 as well. The later is much more fun to shoot and tons more portable with the limiteds. Small drop in IQ but nothing dramatic. I'll enjoy both formats until I need a root canal or the car breaks down. In that case, I'd probably sell the FF body but try to hold onto the glass.
07-26-2012, 08:37 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think the big reason to go with full frame is for wide angle photography. As been mentioned several times in various places, there just isn't an equivalent for 35mm f1.4 lens on APS-C and if you are someone who like those sorts of lenses, then probably full frame makes the most sense. For middle to long focal lengths, the formats are basically awash.
I mostly agree with that. I still would really like to use the FA77 on FF, I think I'd use it more once I could let it freely reach out to its full angle of view. Since I don't have film to test it on this is just a theory, but I have convinced myself anyway that it will be a more practical FL on FF for getting the kinds of compositions (framing and DOF wise) that I wish for.
07-26-2012, 08:52 PM   #72
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At some point next year I will need to have two camera bodies, one as my primary and one as my backup (which will double as my wife's camera). Best case scenario, I will get the FF Pentax and my wife will get the K-5 replacement. Worst case scenario, I will get the K-5 replacement and my wife will get the K-5. As you can see, the worst case scenario really isn't all that bad. What's bugging me most is that without knowing what's ahead it's hard to decide on my own personal lens lineup. What should I do with my DA lenses? Should I purchase only FF compatible lenses? The internal debates I have about what next lens to get is tricky even with two APS-C bodies without even considering the possibility of a FF. It'll just get more complicated once I know that Pentax will definitely be coming out with a FF camera.
07-26-2012, 09:07 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomTextura Quote
What's bugging me most is that without knowing what's ahead it's hard to decide on my own personal lens lineup. What should I do with my DA lenses? Should I purchase only FF compatible lenses?
Yeah that's a big problem, especially when Pentax doesn't have a FF zoom lens line-up in production; Good luck finding a discontinued and optically clean FA* for sale in the wild, and good luck as well as trying to afford one. I am hoping to hear at least a few FF zoom lenses announced at Photokina to give hope to those who want a FF Pentax but will wait. However the 560mm f4.5 prime lens is probably just a small sign of things to come, it'll be interesting if they name it a DA which I doubt so as it looks like an FF lens due to it's white coloring and huge design, surely it'll be a FA lens.
07-26-2012, 11:38 PM   #74
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Brace myself for a barrage of posts on FF and why Pentax is bad.....
07-27-2012, 02:38 AM - 1 Like   #75
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If Pentax doesn't release one...

I'll just shoot away with my K-x. And prolly K-3. No use ranting anyway, and why would I even? ) I never told nor even whispered to anyone outside of these forums (and non-Pentaxians) that there is an FF Pentax coming out soon. They don't care anyway =))
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