Switching from the K-5 to D7000; Am I overreacting?

bossa · 07-31-2012, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by Frogfish

The Auto WB issue is also a criticism of the D800 on the Nikon boards - the 5DIII seems to blow it away in this regard and no, it's not always easy to clean up in PP, especially in mixed lighting, unless you are shooting RAW of course.

I agree with that. Almost every shot from my D800E where Auto WB is selected is wrong. The blues are screwed way out of whack particularly. I find myself fooling around with LR4's WB controls incessantly.

rawr · 07-31-2012, 03:38 PM

It looks to me like the phrase 'out of the frying pan and into the fire' may be appropriate about the whole K-5/D7000 discussion, given that the D7000 isn't immune from it's own problems with AF, not to mention AWB and other stuff.

Or 'better the devil you know'...

Crosshair · 08-01-2012, 07:44 AM

Yeah, I know but I think I won't be able to get used to Pentax AF. I saw that even in my last street shooting, when I awfully missed some still shots. But since I don't intend to enter a painful learning process for just a hobby, Like someone on this thread said a while ago. Besides the list of reasons are also luring me to leave. And I will, probably

It is more difficult to give up the 85*, but I have sold it today to a gentleman, so things are easier for me now.

JinDesu · 08-01-2012, 07:52 AM

Why not consider the new k-30, as it is most of what the k-5 is, but has many users reporting that the AF is better and more decisive?

You lose out on some bracketing options, the top LCD, and the quiet shutter, but you retain the image quality, high ISO, and practically the same DR.

Crosshair · 08-01-2012, 08:02 AM

Top lcd, quiet shutter, double wheels and little more. Important things to me.

Frogfish · 08-01-2012, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Crosshair

I saw that even in my last street shooting, when I awfully missed some still shots. But since I don't intend to enter a painful learning process for just a hobby,

re. the 'painful learning process'. A healthy dose of reality here, every camera out there has it's issues, cameras are very complex electrical optical devices, so no matter which camera you choose you are going to have to go through a 'painful learning process' until you start getting to know both the camera and each of the lenses, and then your keeper rate will increase. Some will be the fault of the camera, some will be yours. Check out the Canon & Nikon forums and you'll see what I mean.

BTW I do quite a bit of street shooting with my K5s and find them great for that purpose - if you are missing an awful lot of still shots I really can't help but think it's not the camera. Sorry.

Crosshair · 08-01-2012, 08:45 AM

Yes, I'm not blaming the camera, I am blaming myself for being lazy to learn the camera's habits. I know I am maybe making a mistake here, but there sure is something going on with the camera too, and certain people on this forum and elsewhere acknowledge that. I think it takes more getting used to than that of canon and nikon, but since I was a nikonian before coming to Pentax, I think I won't have much problem.

Its just, I am no more comfortable with shooting with my current gear, whether it is my fault or the camera's. It has been five months since coming to Pentax. And I am too lazy (or impatient) to learn the basics of another brand. OK, maybe this is the main fault but like I said, this is just a hobby and I could use the energy on a more serious area. Such as my masters thesis

Allocation of efforts, that's all.

StephenHampshire · 08-01-2012, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Crosshair

Yes, I'm not blaming the camera, I am blaming myself for being lazy to learn the camera's habits. I know I am maybe making a mistake here, but there sure is something going on with the camera too, and certain people on this forum and elsewhere acknowledge that. I think it takes more getting used to than that of canon and nikon, but since I was a nikonian before coming to Pentax, I think I won't have much problem.

Its just, I am no more comfortable with shooting with my current gear, whether it is my fault or the camera's. It has been five months since coming to Pentax. And I am too lazy (or impatient) to learn the basics of another brand. OK, maybe this is the main fault but like I said, this is just a hobby and I could use the energy on a more serious area. Such as my masters thesis

Allocation of efforts, that's all.

You are not over reacting if you find the K5 doesn't suit your style of shooting! If the D7000 and Nikon's system works better for you, of course you should change. Don't beat yourself up over it or let any of us beat you about the head either.There are far worse things in the world than changing camera systems. FWIW it seems to me that Pentax and Nikon are closer in philosophy and "style" than Pentax or Nikon to Canon, (btw I shot 35mm film with Canon for around 25 years before going with Pentax for my first DSLR, A k100d. Want to buy an AE-1 and a bag of FD lenses??

) so you probably won't find the move back to Nikon too painful. Good luck and good shooting.

Crosshair · 08-01-2012, 12:01 PM

Thank you, you almost read my mind. That's what I was trying to point out.

JinDesu · 08-01-2012, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by Crosshair

Top lcd, quiet shutter, double wheels and little more. Important things to me.

Minor side notes/corrections:

K-30 has two dials
D7000 isn't quiet

pinholecam · 08-01-2012, 07:19 PM

- Possibly better AF and AF tracking options
>> Its 'possibly'. AFAIK, having reviewed and/or tied various cameras including D700, D7K, A700, D90, the Nikons do 'spin up' faster and appear to be more decisive in focus, but they are not necessarily more accurate. The use of silent on-lens AF motors also adds to this apparent focus speed.
The 12mp cameras like D90 and D700 also benefit from less pixel density which is more forgiving to focus and slight shifting errors.
The Nikon LCD's (at least for D90 and D7K) can be deceiving if you rely on them for reviewing/comparisons. Vividness and sharpness appears to be boosted up on the LCD giving that "Hey! look, this D90 produces better pictures that that Kx" when the layman judges it by just looking at LCD o/p in a camera store.
(The new K30 seems to now follow this as well

...... )

- That you can see selected AF points and WB in the upper LCD so you can turn the color LCD off
>> I like the Nikon AF point indicators. Properly sized compared to the Pentax one.
However, Pentax is overall better thought out the interface, like how we can preview picture mode and WB settings.
One can get used to any interface though, so its not a killer issue in any way.

- Better, faster interface roaming, responsive buttons and wheels
>> Try a faster SD card. I used a class 4 and it was slow to review. Changed to a class 10 and its a world of difference.
I've never had any problems with interface and responsiveness of buttons. (again, maybe its the SD card that was lagging during review).
BTW, you can set the zoom in to be instantly x8 with 1 click of the scroll wheel during picture review (its in the menu)
Pentax has the better interface if you ask me.
1. 1 scroll review at x4 or x8 (vs Nikons magnifying glass buttons)
2. 1 handed access to most buttons
3. Right hand lens release button
4. Green button
etc

- Equivalent IQ to the k-5 so I won't lose any when I jump ship
>> Only if you are very proficient in RAW.
The K5 is almost chroma noiseless (via in-camera trickery or whatever), but it works, and thats the bottom line.
The noise grains are also finer on the K5, so it can be pushed a lot in post, whether it be to lift the shadows, fix the exposure, adding saturation, etc.
Again, you can get similar or close with the D7K of course, but need a bit of work with a NR program as supplement.

- Quieter focusing lenses compared to my current kit (thinking 35 1.8G or 24 2.8D, and 85 1.8D, and yes, Nikon's motor lenses are quieter compared to Pentax motor)
>> Is it that big a deal in the first place? But, quiet focusing lenses is not a Pentax strong point.

- The fact that I will actually get lighter with the above-told lenses kit (FA* 85: 550gr, Sigma 30mm: 407 gr; -----whereas nikkor 85 1.8D: 380gr, nikkor 35 1.8G: 197 gr, OR 24 2.8D: 268gr)
>> You have picked non-similar lenses to compare.

You can't compare the FA*85 to the Nikkor 85/1.8. Totally not the same league. (don't know about yours, but at least I know my copy is good). Build quality is different too. Compare to a Nikon 85/1.4 and the FA*85 still surpasses it in bokeh and is cheaper (at least where I'm from).

35mm, DA35/2.4 is no slouch and I think you should use that as a comparison rather than the largish Sigma 30/1.4. Anyway, the Sigma 30/1.4 blows both of them away at f1.4.

- My lenses expand the size of the tiny k-5 as a kit, so smallness is not a factor with me in Pentax
>> You could sell your lenses and re-configure

At this point, you are taking your pick with the Nikon lenses and tying yourself up with the Pentax ones.

- Being a Nikonian feels more convenient
>> Until you start to see that the grass only looks greener on the other side.

Seriously though, I see you are from Turkey, and support may be better with a Nikon there.
Some brands just don't work out for some people (mine's Toshiba and Canon) so switch if its eating into you.

Wait for Photokina, before deciding anything.

bossa · 08-01-2012, 08:15 PM

It's obvious to me that you really are just looking to justify the change to Nikon. I've been using my D800E and my K-5 together this past week after the Nikon focus got fixed. Unless you intend getting a Nikon FF I would stay with Pentax. The Nikon 50's I tried (bought and got rid of a 50/1.4G and tried a 50/1.8G) were not in the same league as a DA*55 IMO and there's just nothing like the FA Limited lenses from Nikon. The new 28/1.8G is lousy on D7000 but decent on D700. It has a peculiar 'hump' or dip in resolution at where the boundaries of APS-C are located and possibly is not up to scratch on high density sensors. The Nikon 300/4 is not stabilized and has a greatly recessed rear element which many people say is almost impossible to clean. Unless you intend buying a stabilized 70-200/2.8 and a 300/2.8 VR you aren't getting much more except heavier lenses and a bad back.

TOUGEFC · 08-01-2012, 09:12 PM

You cant really compare a 55mm lens on a crop sensor to a 50mm on full frame, the FOV is completely different.

A 85mm on FF vs 55mm on crop is a better match for FOV. In that case the 85mm1.8G spanks the DA*55mm. But then again the 85mm has the full frame advantage and it becomes a case of a full frame sensor spanking the crop sensor....

JinDesu · 08-01-2012, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by TOUGEFC

You cant really compare a 55mm lens on a crop sensor to a 50mm on full frame, the FOV is completely different.

A 85mm on FF vs 55mm on crop is a better match for FOV. In that case the 85mm1.8G spanks the DA*55mm. But then again the 85mm has the full frame advantage and it becomes a case of a full frame sensor spanking the crop sensor....

Yeah but OP is going for a crop Nikon

TOUGEFC · 08-01-2012, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by JinDesu

Yeah but OP is going for a crop Nikon

Ah ok then. I read the tittle as D700 instead of D7000.

In that case, I'd say stick with Pentax.

08-01-2012, 09:10 AM	#38
StephenHampshire Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Winchester Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,523	Originally posted by Crosshair Yes, I'm not blaming the camera, I am blaming myself for being lazy to learn the camera's habits. I know I am maybe making a mistake here, but there sure is something going on with the camera too, and certain people on this forum and elsewhere acknowledge that. I think it takes more getting used to than that of canon and nikon, but since I was a nikonian before coming to Pentax, I think I won't have much problem. Its just, I am no more comfortable with shooting with my current gear, whether it is my fault or the camera's. It has been five months since coming to Pentax. And I am too lazy (or impatient) to learn the basics of another brand. OK, maybe this is the main fault but like I said, this is just a hobby and I could use the energy on a more serious area. Such as my masters thesis Allocation of efforts, that's all. You are not over reacting if you find the K5 doesn't suit your style of shooting! If the D7000 and Nikon's system works better for you, of course you should change. Don't beat yourself up over it or let any of us beat you about the head either.There are far worse things in the world than changing camera systems. FWIW it seems to me that Pentax and Nikon are closer in philosophy and "style" than Pentax or Nikon to Canon, (btw I shot 35mm film with Canon for around 25 years before going with Pentax for my first DSLR, A k100d. Want to buy an AE-1 and a bag of FD lenses??) so you probably won't find the move back to Nikon too painful. Good luck and good shooting.

08-01-2012, 07:19 PM	#41
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	- Possibly better AF and AF tracking options >> Its 'possibly'. AFAIK, having reviewed and/or tied various cameras including D700, D7K, A700, D90, the Nikons do 'spin up' faster and appear to be more decisive in focus, but they are not necessarily more accurate. The use of silent on-lens AF motors also adds to this apparent focus speed. The 12mp cameras like D90 and D700 also benefit from less pixel density which is more forgiving to focus and slight shifting errors. The Nikon LCD's (at least for D90 and D7K) can be deceiving if you rely on them for reviewing/comparisons. Vividness and sharpness appears to be boosted up on the LCD giving that "Hey! look, this D90 produces better pictures that that Kx" when the layman judges it by just looking at LCD o/p in a camera store. (The new K30 seems to now follow this as well ...... ) - That you can see selected AF points and WB in the upper LCD so you can turn the color LCD off >> I like the Nikon AF point indicators. Properly sized compared to the Pentax one. However, Pentax is overall better thought out the interface, like how we can preview picture mode and WB settings. One can get used to any interface though, so its not a killer issue in any way. - Better, faster interface roaming, responsive buttons and wheels >> Try a faster SD card. I used a class 4 and it was slow to review. Changed to a class 10 and its a world of difference. I've never had any problems with interface and responsiveness of buttons. (again, maybe its the SD card that was lagging during review). BTW, you can set the zoom in to be instantly x8 with 1 click of the scroll wheel during picture review (its in the menu) Pentax has the better interface if you ask me. 1. 1 scroll review at x4 or x8 (vs Nikons magnifying glass buttons) 2. 1 handed access to most buttons 3. Right hand lens release button 4. Green button etc - Equivalent IQ to the k-5 so I won't lose any when I jump ship >> Only if you are very proficient in RAW. The K5 is almost chroma noiseless (via in-camera trickery or whatever), but it works, and thats the bottom line. The noise grains are also finer on the K5, so it can be pushed a lot in post, whether it be to lift the shadows, fix the exposure, adding saturation, etc. Again, you can get similar or close with the D7K of course, but need a bit of work with a NR program as supplement. - Quieter focusing lenses compared to my current kit (thinking 35 1.8G or 24 2.8D, and 85 1.8D, and yes, Nikon's motor lenses are quieter compared to Pentax motor) >> Is it that big a deal in the first place? But, quiet focusing lenses is not a Pentax strong point. - The fact that I will actually get lighter with the above-told lenses kit (FA* 85: 550gr, Sigma 30mm: 407 gr; -----whereas nikkor 85 1.8D: 380gr, nikkor 35 1.8G: 197 gr, OR 24 2.8D: 268gr) >> You have picked non-similar lenses to compare. You can't compare the FA85 to the Nikkor 85/1.8. Totally not the same league. (don't know about yours, but at least I know my copy is good). Build quality is different too. Compare to a Nikon 85/1.4 and the FA85 still surpasses it in bokeh and is cheaper (at least where I'm from). 35mm, DA35/2.4 is no slouch and I think you should use that as a comparison rather than the largish Sigma 30/1.4. Anyway, the Sigma 30/1.4 blows both of them away at f1.4. - My lenses expand the size of the tiny k-5 as a kit, so smallness is not a factor with me in Pentax >> You could sell your lenses and re-configure At this point, you are taking your pick with the Nikon lenses and tying yourself up with the Pentax ones. - Being a Nikonian feels more convenient >> Until you start to see that the grass only looks greener on the other side. Seriously though, I see you are from Turkey, and support may be better with a Nikon there. Some brands just don't work out for some people (mine's Toshiba and Canon) so switch if its eating into you. Wait for Photokina, before deciding anything. Last edited by pinholecam; 08-01-2012 at 08:36 PM.

08-01-2012, 08:15 PM	#42
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	It's obvious to me that you really are just looking to justify the change to Nikon. I've been using my D800E and my K-5 together this past week after the Nikon focus got fixed. Unless you intend getting a Nikon FF I would stay with Pentax. The Nikon 50's I tried (bought and got rid of a 50/1.4G and tried a 50/1.8G) were not in the same league as a DA55 IMO and there's just nothing like the FA Limited lenses from Nikon. The new 28/1.8G is lousy on D7000 but decent on D700. It has a peculiar 'hump' or dip in resolution at where the boundaries of APS-C are located and possibly is not up to scratch on high density sensors. The Nikon 300/4 is not stabilized and has a greatly recessed rear element which many people say is almost impossible to clean. Unless you intend buying a stabilized 70-200/2.8 and a 300/2.8 VR you aren't getting much more except heavier lenses and a bad back. Last edited by bossa; 08-01-2012 at 09:25 PM.*

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07-31-2012, 03:28 PM	#31
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Originally posted by Frogfish The Auto WB issue is also a criticism of the D800 on the Nikon boards - the 5DIII seems to blow it away in this regard and no, it's not always easy to clean up in PP, especially in mixed lighting, unless you are shooting RAW of course. I agree with that. Almost every shot from my D800E where Auto WB is selected is wrong. The blues are screwed way out of whack particularly. I find myself fooling around with LR4's WB controls incessantly.

07-31-2012, 03:38 PM	#32
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	It looks to me like the phrase 'out of the frying pan and into the fire' may be appropriate about the whole K-5/D7000 discussion, given that the D7000 isn't immune from it's own problems with AF, not to mention AWB and other stuff. Or 'better the devil you know'...

08-01-2012, 07:44 AM	#33
Crosshair Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Istanbul Posts: 332 Original Poster	Yeah, I know but I think I won't be able to get used to Pentax AF. I saw that even in my last street shooting, when I awfully missed some still shots. But since I don't intend to enter a painful learning process for just a hobby, Like someone on this thread said a while ago. Besides the list of reasons are also luring me to leave. And I will, probably It is more difficult to give up the 85*, but I have sold it today to a gentleman, so things are easier for me now.

08-01-2012, 07:52 AM	#34
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Why not consider the new k-30, as it is most of what the k-5 is, but has many users reporting that the AF is better and more decisive? You lose out on some bracketing options, the top LCD, and the quiet shutter, but you retain the image quality, high ISO, and practically the same DR.

08-01-2012, 08:02 AM	#35
Crosshair Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Istanbul Posts: 332 Original Poster	Top lcd, quiet shutter, double wheels and little more. Important things to me.

08-01-2012, 08:23 AM	#36
Frogfish Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shanghai Posts: 4,490	Originally posted by Crosshair I saw that even in my last street shooting, when I awfully missed some still shots. But since I don't intend to enter a painful learning process for just a hobby, re. the 'painful learning process'. A healthy dose of reality here, every camera out there has it's issues, cameras are very complex electrical optical devices, so no matter which camera you choose you are going to have to go through a 'painful learning process' until you start getting to know both the camera and each of the lenses, and then your keeper rate will increase. Some will be the fault of the camera, some will be yours. Check out the Canon & Nikon forums and you'll see what I mean. BTW I do quite a bit of street shooting with my K5s and find them great for that purpose - if you are missing an awful lot of still shots I really can't help but think it's not the camera. Sorry.

08-01-2012, 08:45 AM	#37
Crosshair Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Istanbul Posts: 332 Original Poster	Yes, I'm not blaming the camera, I am blaming myself for being lazy to learn the camera's habits. I know I am maybe making a mistake here, but there sure is something going on with the camera too, and certain people on this forum and elsewhere acknowledge that. I think it takes more getting used to than that of canon and nikon, but since I was a nikonian before coming to Pentax, I think I won't have much problem. Its just, I am no more comfortable with shooting with my current gear, whether it is my fault or the camera's. It has been five months since coming to Pentax. And I am too lazy (or impatient) to learn the basics of another brand. OK, maybe this is the main fault but like I said, this is just a hobby and I could use the energy on a more serious area. Such as my masters thesis Allocation of efforts, that's all.

08-01-2012, 12:01 PM	#39
Crosshair Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Istanbul Posts: 332 Original Poster	Thank you, you almost read my mind. That's what I was trying to point out.

08-01-2012, 06:44 PM	#40
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Originally posted by Crosshair Top lcd, quiet shutter, double wheels and little more. Important things to me. Minor side notes/corrections: K-30 has two dials D7000 isn't quiet

08-01-2012, 09:12 PM	#43
TOUGEFC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,561	You cant really compare a 55mm lens on a crop sensor to a 50mm on full frame, the FOV is completely different. A 85mm on FF vs 55mm on crop is a better match for FOV. In that case the 85mm1.8G spanks the DA*55mm. But then again the 85mm has the full frame advantage and it becomes a case of a full frame sensor spanking the crop sensor....

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08-01-2012, 09:20 PM	#44
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Originally posted by TOUGEFC You cant really compare a 55mm lens on a crop sensor to a 50mm on full frame, the FOV is completely different. A 85mm on FF vs 55mm on crop is a better match for FOV. In that case the 85mm1.8G spanks the DA*55mm. But then again the 85mm has the full frame advantage and it becomes a case of a full frame sensor spanking the crop sensor.... Yeah but OP is going for a crop Nikon

08-01-2012, 09:23 PM	#45
TOUGEFC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,561	Originally posted by JinDesu Yeah but OP is going for a crop Nikon Ah ok then. I read the tittle as D700 instead of D7000. In that case, I'd say stick with Pentax.