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01-28-2008, 12:41 PM   #31
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Buy what feels good in your hands and is intuitive to use. This will make any perceived shortcomings a breeze to deal with. Would you buy a car that feels uncomfortable to sit in??
I don't think so. Whatever way you go, make it personal, not techy.....
Also buy what you need, what you want, and what you can afford NOW...Digitals are not old school and will evolve faster than ever and no amount of "crystal ball gazing" will really help.
The k20 sensor (aka Film) looks pretty promising. Wait a short bit to see what, if any, are it's weaknesses. Normally at this stage you would see something (moire in k100's,K10's. Banding ect. Low res in istD) I'm not seeing really anything YET....
Canon's interface, MLU buried 3deep in menus (so I was told), and lack of spot metering (earlier models)was my reason for buying Pentax over Canon. Bought Pentax over Nikon because I had a few K mount lenses. IQ was pretty equal at the time.
Never stops there though. Had to buy more, newer lenses. Like primes? Get Pentax. Nobody can really convince you one way or another but skip "old school" thinking. Doesn't really apply anymore unless it is your career, and of course then it's just a writeoff. Besides it's pretty easy unloading stuff on ebay and recovering a good chunk of your investment in the near term....
NOTE: There are a lot of good sources, other than ebay, for used lenses.. KEH, B&H, ect.)
See, used lenses hold their value (sorry, I justget a kick out of looking at this one):
Used Canon | Super Telephoto 1200mm f/5.6L EF USM Autofocus Lens


Last edited by jeffkrol; 01-28-2008 at 12:57 PM.
01-28-2008, 01:07 PM   #32
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Hi Art,

First off, welcome to the Pentax Forum!

I am curious as to what kinds of photography you delve into most of the time? Perhaps that might help the choice situation or clarify things some more...

From a Pentax perspective, I can honestly say the color/contrast/resolution in Pentax optics is some of (if not the best) out there, even when comparing the kit lens between Pentax and other manufacturers. I love the fact that most images I shoot require no sharpening, or just a small amount due to the type of photography involved (eg. moon shots). This is primarily because of the lens clarity (assuming your technique is solid and not the faulting cause).

However, the majority of my lenses purchased are 35mm film specific, and I see no weaknesses in the optics. Granted, I paid $$$ for the best optics that Pentax made in the film era: even at 200% it just starts to show pixelation. Personally I think the image quality is quite possibly the best of the rest, and several of the current DA lenses are gems too. I suspect, as others have posted, you'll be happy with buying Pentax gear.

I would not be too concerned about full frame, since those cameras are by design using a larger sensor and have more cost associated with them. It would be difficult for all manufacturers to build only cameras with 24x36mm sensors and keep body costs in the sub $2000-$2500 range. Not everyone can afford this price range - full frame sensor based bodies will not drop into the realm of the everyday user for many years.

Regards,
Marc
01-28-2008, 01:15 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
i'm just trying to understand how it is that you make a buying decision, i'm an ex sales rep, first you try and understand what the consumer actualy wants, because alot of times what they say they want is not what they actualy need

then once you determine that you go on to offer them choices with supporting explanations.

i personaly dont want you to buy something because people say yes or no, i want you to understand what you are buying, and why you are paying X amount of dollars instead of Y.
Honestly; I've had better luck with "shady stores" then ebay. So that is part of it. In one of my other hobbies, RC airplanes, I've ordered batteries, motors, and other parts directly from a stores in Hong Kong and had no issues. They too are considered shady by some.

With ebay, well, now thats a different story. For one I simply hate that website. I hate shopping there for the same reasons I hate shopping at a wal-mart in real life...cluttered, messy, and just downright unpleasant. However the used department at BH does look promising. This lens is right up my alley in-fact:

Used Pentax | Zoom Telephoto 70-210mm f/4 SMCP-A Manual Focus

I shoot 75% of my pics in full manual mode anyway (even with a camera without a single dial, which forces me to use button combos and control pad clicks), so a manual lens is no big deal to me. In-fact if someone other then Lecia made a digital range finder thats where my money would be going; but thats a whole different story....
01-28-2008, 01:18 PM   #34
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you can also look into KEH, they have modertly priced used lenses

KEH Camera: Pentax Manual Focus

also look into a used shop in your area, sometimes you can find great deals on long forgotten crap. I always see people posting wonder stories of stumbling on rare lenses that they buy for like 10 bucks or something.

01-28-2008, 01:25 PM   #35
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Just in case you were unawares..."Preferred Photo" is the "nom de plume" for Broadway Photo, which is none too highly regarded by the consumer advocacy site, resellerrating.com.

Broadway Photo ratings

You might wish to compare their ratings (and buyers' horror stories) with those of B&H or Adorama.
01-28-2008, 01:38 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
As far as the 18-250....hope I don't offend anyone, but I cringe when I see lenses like that. The super zooms just aren't my thing. In most cases they are quiet slow, and the distortion on the low end makes them almost unusable below 35mm. In fact I'm pondering an all prime set up with the DA-21, DA-40, and DA-70.
Take a look at this and check oput the samples as well as the recognition:
AF18-250mm F/3.5-6.3 Di II LD Aspherical (IF); Tamron USA, Inc.

Nice awards this thing has racked up in the past several months...not to mention the reputation it has by the owners who are using it.

Just a thought.

Last edited by Jasvox; 01-28-2008 at 01:40 PM. Reason: left out words
01-28-2008, 01:48 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Duck Dodgers Quote
Just in case you were unawares..."Preferred Photo" is the "nom de plume" for Broadway Photo, which is none too highly regarded by the consumer advocacy site, resellerrating.com.

Broadway Photo ratings

You might wish to compare their ratings (and buyers' horror stories) with those of B&H or Adorama.
Thanks for the tip...I saw they had a 4.1 out of 5 on price grabber, so that was good enough for me to risk it, but I have read the horrors of Broadway Photo so I'll pass on them when it comes time to order. I could just go up to J&R next time I'm in NYC and haggle with them mafia style. Feels more rewarding doing that anyway.
01-28-2008, 01:56 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
Take a look at this and check oput the samples as well as the recognition:
AF18-250mm F/3.5-6.3 Di II LD Aspherical (IF); Tamron USA, Inc.

Nice awards this thing has racked up in the past several months...not to mention the reputation it has by the owners who are using it.

Just a thought.
I read a review of that lens on photozone.de that scared me away.

Tamron AF 18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 Di II LD Aspherical [IF] macro (Nikon) - Lab Test Report / Review

By all accounts it looks like a fine, but slow lens from 35-250mm, but at 18mm that thing is putting out some serious distortion. Not fish-eye levels, but still enough to make me want to correct it in Lightroom/Photoshop. Which is something I don't want to do.

I personally would rather have a wide angle zoom, and a decent telephoto zoom, then a couple of fast primes. On the zooms my ideal would be a fixed min aperture of F.4 or faster. I'm just not a big fan of variable apertures.

01-28-2008, 02:04 PM   #39
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"oh trust me, i totally agree there. Hell, I've shot at 4 megapixel's for years now. I've had to use every Photoshop trick in the book to get the results I want."

Ok...nevermind.
01-28-2008, 02:13 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by 35mmfilm_user Quote
Hi Art,

First off, welcome to the Pentax Forum!

I am curious as to what kinds of photography you delve into most of the time? Perhaps that might help the choice situation or clarify things some more...
Thanks for the advice. As far as what I shoot, well, thats all over the spectrum. It depends on what I feel like that day or what I see worth photographing. Usually a lot of travel photos, some portraits, lots of landscapes, random objects, and street photography. Honestly a range finder would be perfect for me, but I'm not paying $7,000 for a set up. So SLR here I come. I've attached a few pics I've taken with my old camera and one from a borrowed D40.
Attached Images
         
01-28-2008, 02:33 PM   #41
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Hi Art

I have no previous brand loyalty to Pentax, having formerly come from an Olympus OM1 35mm/Mamiya 645 format film background. However, I'd like to pick you up on a couple of points.
Firstly, I almost burst out laughing when you compared the 'good ergonomics' of Canon's 40D to Pentax's existing K10D/forthcoming K20D DSLR. Obviously such things are very much a matter of personal preference, but the thing that initially drew me to the Pentax K10D in the 'first' place was how utterly 'RIGHT' it felt in my hands compared to how horribly 'WRONG' the 40D felt by comparison ! IMHO it's absolutely NO contest, the K10D wins hands down every time. Period ! The number of times I've used the Sv/ISO option is beyond belief......you won't find THAT on the Canon ! Having handled the 40D, there is simply
NO WAY I could use that contraption for any length of time without wanting to hurl it under the wheels of an oncoming bus !
No offence intended.......

As for your other observation that:

QuoteQuote:
As far as the 18-250....hope I don't offend anyone, but I cringe when I see lenses like that. The super zooms just aren't my thing. In most cases they are quite slow, and the distortion on the low end makes them almost unusable below 35mm.
Well all I can say is that there are an awful lot of satisfied 18-250mm users out there and whilst I am not in the least bit offended, I have yet to experience the downsides that you mention. It's flexibility far outweighs any disadvantages and I believe I am correct in stating that every wide-angle lens has distortion to a greater or lesser extent. Nowadays there are numerous editing options out there such as PTLens or DxO which enable you to easily remove such distortion, should it prove a problem. In any case, I count myself very fortunate to possess Sigma's extraordinary 10-20mm rectilinear wide-zoom for shooting architectural interiors and dramatic landscapes, but even this lens has some visible artefacts at it's extremities, which as I mentioned are easily addressed with the appropriate software.

Best regards
Richard

P.S. Try this link for some examples taken with my Tamron 18-250mm:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/85055-post8.html

Last edited by Confused; 01-28-2008 at 02:54 PM.
01-28-2008, 02:53 PM   #42
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Yeah, I agree ergonomics really comes down to a matter of opinion. I always wonder why some many reviews harp on it as if their opinion is fact. However until all hands are created equal ergo's will always be a matter of opinion. I haven't shot with either the Canon 40D or Pentax K10D for long periods of time, but I have tried them out for 10-20 minute tests multiple times and random stores; and both suit me just fine. If I had to rank them I would put the Nikon D200/300 first, Pentax K10/20 second, then the Canon 3rd. But all three are fine by me. In fact the only camera I have tried that I absolutely would not buy do to ergo's is the Canon Rebel XTI. And that is due more to cheap plastic then all out form factor.

As far as the 18-250. To each his/her own. Luckily there are tons of choices for everyone.
01-28-2008, 03:04 PM   #43
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Hi again Art

Another very important point which can't be underestimated is the huge additional cost involved if buying into either Canon's or Nikon's stabilized lenses. No such problem where Pentax is concerned (Shake Reduction built into the body, remember !) so EVERYTHING with a K-mount benefits......put the savings made towards a nice relaxing vacation somewhere !

Best regards
Richard
01-28-2008, 03:16 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
(snip). In fact I'm pondering an all prime set up with the DA-21, DA-40, and DA-70.
You can still get full frame primes from Pentax, and in fact they still have rebates on them for a few more days. I bought the 77ltd last month and you can get always get the FA50.

I know what you mean about full frame vs. APS-C lenses. As I've bought the two DA* lenses, that was in the back of my mind. However, it looks like with the K20D, Pentax has breathed new life into the APS-C size for a while.

Anyway, I think you could put together a competitive Pentax kit if you look around. I'd also include some 3rd party lenses (as you can do for Canon as well).
01-28-2008, 03:40 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Well, I really wasn't setting out to do a apples to apples comparison. It was more of what I would do for $2000 with each system, which in the case of Nikon means one body and one lens...which eliminated them all together.

Just curious why you've ruled out the D80? You can get a D80 with an 18-135 AF-S DX for $1000, and then one or more other lenses for the other $1000...



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